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Well....there is a little thing called the record. There is a RECORD of blacks striving and fighting to integrate. Nearly every urban center that is majority black, was likely once majority whites. The only way for it to go from white to black is for blacks to have demonstrated the willingness to integrate and live around whites, while on the other hand, whites were demonstrating the desire not to live around blacks. How else does a city go from majority white to majority black without black integrating and whites vacating?
Is that intentional integrating, or just moving where they wanted to move?
Offending black people is to suggest that the inequality that exists, as in higher crime rates, higher poverty, higher unemployment, higher birth out of wedlock.....is all caused by their nature and not the unequal nurturing of this society based upon race. No. I am NOT saying ALL black problems are the result of this unequal nurturing, but rather, the differentials between those groups that are at least 6th generation Americans, on average. Usually people like you have to make an EXCUSE for your displeasure at hearing the TRUTH by saying that I am saying its true for ALL BLACK PROBLEMS or that ALL white people were doing it.
Why would you need an excuse? It's just there by just about every metric. I mean, I'm a millenial so I don't put a lot of stock in marriage as is typical of my generation but as a proxy for children without a father figure in their lives it works. That's actually fairly important. Kids with a father figure do better than kids without one. Don't have the current numbers and don't particularly feel like Googling them but it's something like 20-25% for white children, 30% for Hispanic, and 60% for black. Which then of course ties into poverty as single mothers are far more likely to be in poverty than households with two parents. Which ties into academic success which ties into success in life. As a group black Americans just aren't very good at setting their children up for success. I mean, from your viewpoint since whitey made Jaymal's father be an absentee parent I guess it makes sense that whitey is also responsible for Jaymal dropping out and then the consequence of that (more black high school dropouts between 20-34 are in jail/prison than working).
You can use race-based positive discrimination (affirmitive action) to try and counteract some of that but at the end of the day it only can do so much. If Jaymal drops out at 14, affirmative action in terms of college admission obviously don't help him as he's dropped out and not going). You can provide federal student loans to make college accessible to Jaymal that don't factor in credit scores, but again, if he drops out at 14 that's not of any use. Preferential hiring doesn't really help a lot of black people as being unemployed and in and out of jail isn't much of a resume. For those that just graduate from high school and didn't "catch a sentence" they do, but that's a smaller number than you might think. Unfortunate, but it is what it is.
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People who come to America and who know their culture usually do well. Any group adopting American culture generally are on a down hill trajectory. Most people from developing countries come from STRONG FAMILY structures. Not even whites in America have a strong family structure or work ethic as compared to people from poor countries.
True. It's why Asians outperform whites as a group. They value education more, work harder, more likely to believe in marriage or at least commitment
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My best friends, for the last 15 years, have been native born Africans. There is no such thing as "Black Culture". There is only African culture. Descendants of enslaved Americans don't practice black culture....they practice American culture, learned from the way white Americans treated them for 300 years. We speak your language. We worship your religions. We even have YOUR English, Irish, French, German, etc, sir names. That is certainly different from Kwame Amoah who immigrates from the Asante region of Ghana to America...although he too has been influenced through white colonizers, but not to the same degree.
Already been over that. Whenever I say black culture just replace it with that long spiel as we're just arguing semantics.
People aren't segregating by RACE aka skin colour. People are segregating AND self-segregating by CULTURE, LANGUAGE, moral VALUES and GOALS, and ECONOMIC class.
1. CULTURE - Well people want to live next to other people who share their same lifestyle, religion, hobbies and party habits. Some people want to live in a quiet and clean neighborhood, others enjoy having their loud block parties and don't care about trash being thrown on the ground.
2. LANGUAGE - Some immigrants feel more comfortable living in areas where people speak their same home tongue, and support ethnic grocery stores and shops. Hence, the Chinatowns, Korea towns, and other nationalities like those from India, Italy and Armenia.
3. Moral VALUES - Well, in Massachusetts, the gays took over Provincetown and the South End of Boston. Oquonquit, Maine is also a magnet for the gay community. Jewish families cluster near Jewish temples so that they can walk there for Shabbat. There are a lot of Hispanics in Lynn and Lawrence. The Portuguese live in the Fall River/New Bedford area.
4. GOALS - This covers academic goals for their children, or being homeowners in areas with only single family homes and no apartment buildings. Homeowners are willing to pay high property taxes so that their children can have a quality public education. Renters just don't pay enough property taxes through their rent, so their contribution to their public school system is much less. Consequently, their school systems have a much small budget to work with.
5. ECONOMIC class - Well, just as I wouldn't want to live in a wealthy neighborhood with my low middle-class wages, poor people aren't comfortable in living in a middle class area. Personally, I don't want a property where I am expected to hire landscapers to groom my grass and shrubbery. I like my $1500 Civic and I am not going to waste my money on a brand new BMW or Mercedes. And if I had children, I am not going to want to listen to their complaints when I don't buy them a smartphone. I like being comfortable with my neighbors as we stand around in our worn t-shirts and jeans.
And when I worked in Boston at a major university in food services, my work environment was extremely diverse. At employee meal break, ALL the employees self-segregated by their CULTURE. So there were Spanish speaking tables, a Chinese table, then urban culture male tables and urban culture female tables. I sat at the table with three white people, but our common bond was that we all went to college and grew up in suburban areas not the inner city.
People 50, 100 and 200 years ago could make the same argument and the result would be that there was no racism in the past either....as they were really not motivated by "race", but other things.
I don't know....maybe that is true....but whatever whites motives are.......it seems to mostly impact blacks negatively. Hence, I don't care what your intentions are.....I am concerned about what its impact is on blacks.
People aren't segregating by RACE aka skin colour. People are segregating AND self-segregating by CULTURE, LANGUAGE, moral VALUES and GOALS, and ECONOMIC class.
1. CULTURE - Well people want to live next to other people who share their same lifestyle, religion, hobbies and party habits. Some people want to live in a quiet and clean neighborhood, others enjoy having their loud block parties and don't care about trash being thrown on the ground.
2. LANGUAGE - Some immigrants feel more comfortable living in areas where people speak their same home tongue, and support ethnic grocery stores and shops. Hence, the Chinatowns, Korea towns, and other nationalities like those from India, Italy and Armenia.
3. Moral VALUES - Well, in Massachusetts, the gays took over Provincetown and the South End of Boston. Oquonquit, Maine is also a magnet for the gay community. Jewish families cluster near Jewish temples so that they can walk there for Shabbat. There are a lot of Hispanics in Lynn and Lawrence. The Portuguese live in the Fall River/New Bedford area.
4. GOALS - This covers academic goals for their children, or being homeowners in areas with only single family homes and no apartment buildings. Homeowners are willing to pay high property taxes so that their children can have a quality public education. Renters just don't pay enough property taxes through their rent, so their contribution to their public school system is much less. Consequently, their school systems have a much small budget to work with.
5. ECONOMIC class - Well, just as I wouldn't want to live in a wealthy neighborhood with my low middle-class wages, poor people aren't comfortable in living in a middle class area. Personally, I don't want a property where I am expected to hire landscapers to groom my grass and shrubbery. I like my $1500 Civic and I am not going to waste my money on a brand new BMW or Mercedes. And if I had children, I am not going to want to listen to their complaints when I don't buy them a smartphone. I like being comfortable with my neighbors as we stand around in our worn t-shirts and jeans.
And when I worked in Boston at a major university in food services, my work environment was extremely diverse. At employee meal break, ALL the employees self-segregated by their CULTURE. So there were Spanish speaking tables, a Chinese table, then urban culture male tables and urban culture female tables. I sat at the table with three white people, but our common bond was that we all went to college and grew up in suburban areas not the inner city.
A lot of people do want their neighbors to look like them too.
I doubt that most whites who move out those communities move out due to actual things that happened to them. I think they move out from the speculation and fear that those things will happen to them. As I mentioned before, people create self fulfilling prophecies. If Americans suddenly speculate and fear a stock market crash due to some supposed "sign" then ACT on those fears by divesting from the market, the stock market will in turn crash. Then people will think....the "sign" was correct. It predicated the crash. No, the SPECULATION and FEAR and subsequent ACT/BEHAVIOR of divesting created the crash.....not the sign.
Its white FEARS and SPECULATION from "signs" of a community getting "blacker" that creates a similar self fulfilling prophecy.
You're talking out of your *****. I've seen white flight firsthand, from my neighborhood in Pittsburgh. Violence, beatings, armed robberies were depressingly common. And yes, in pretty much every instance, the perpetrator was black. Our new neighbors had been moved into the neighborhood by the government, after the high-rise projects were torn down. These are the type of people who were moved into my neighborhood. And you want to tell me that nothing bad happened?
Hey.....these people on C-D don't do "Studies". Studies, to them, means "Liberal". They like statistics on crime and stuff like that......not studies. You will find that any posted study that remotely suggest racism will be ignored or they will say it was a flawed biased study conducted by Harvard or some other elite University....people who are not smart enough to know how to do an unbiased controlled study. I can't tell you how many studies I have posted links to....only to have them ignored or discredited (attempted).
Who here had denied that segregation and white flight exist? No one I saw.
But here's the million-dollar question. And please answer it. Where do you live?
I don't think the standard has to be wait till violent crime victimizations happen and your property value drops drastically although that is usually a given. There's any number of ways under the sun that bad neighbors moving in can cause deterioration of your neighborhood and a lower quality of life-from thefts, vandalism, loitering, harassment, dirty looks, various unpleasant and suspicious behaviors and sights and sounds, smelling weed everywhere etc etc. You don't get to decide only violent crimes are sufficient deterioration to justify unhappiness and moving.
You can add people standing in the middle of the street and refusing to move for cars to your list. That was a common problem in my old neighborhood. Can you believe that anyone wouldn't want to live in a neighborhood where that was going on? What a bunch of vile racists!
You're talking out of your *****. I've seen white flight firsthand, from my neighborhood in Pittsburgh. Violence, beatings, armed robberies were depressingly common. And yes, in pretty much every instance, the perpetrator was black. Our new neighbors had been moved into the neighborhood by the government, after the high-rise projects were torn down. These are the type of people who were moved into my neighborhood. And you want to tell me that nothing bad happened?
Yep, the city I grew up in is majority black and has a murder rate 10 times the national average and I was routinely threatened by groups of blacks as a teen....dam right I took my white butt and family to a different locale.
You can add people standing in the middle of the street and refusing to move for cars to your list. That was a common problem in my old neighborhood. Can you believe that anyone wouldn't want to live in a neighborhood where that was going on? What a bunch of vile racists!
Yeah I sort of had that in mind under "loitering". Bad neighbors have endless ways of creating a bad and unpleasant neighborhood experience besides violent crime. Blaming the good people for moving away from encroachment of bad neighbors is blaming the wrong person.
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