Warrens Medicare for all- $52 Trillion $$ (interview, Kennedy, Canada, Sanders)

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by Roboteer

Let's see.

$52 trillion is $162,500 for every man, woman, and child in this country, for the next ten years.

That's $650,000 for each family of four.

Or $65,000 per year. Are you ready to write out that check, every year, for the rest of your life?

And if the liberals say they can "subsidize" these huge amounts for you, that simply means that someone else, in addition to paying their own $65,000, has to pay yours too. If it was you, would you be ready to write THAT check, every year forever?

Do you begin to understand why government must make a law forcing every American to join this scheme? Why they will no longer give us the "luxury" of free choice any more?

This is a disingenuous argument because it completely ignores progressive taxation

[gmagoo]

Originally Posted by T-310

Screw public option. Pay for your own stuff.

Without the mandate to buy insurance it is Trump who is giving people free healthcare. Get t-boned at an intersection and need a 25K helicopter ride to a trauma center? No charge.

[workingclasshero]

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

This is a disingenuous argument because it completely ignores progressive taxation

uhm... payroll tax is not progressive it is a flat tax

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by workingclasshero

uhm... payroll tax is not progressive it is a flat tax

People don't pay the same dollar amount for taxpayer funded goods, they pay a percentage. The private market charges people the same dollar amount. That's why the line of argument was disingenuous

[serger]

Originally Posted by travis t

bottom line, this would be a massive tax on the middle class, not just on the rich as Warren claims. The concept of 'employer share' payroll tax is a sleight of hand.

As I have posted before, the Scandinavian model is that everyone--poor, middle, and rich--pay into the system, and everyone is eligible for benefits.

The 'soak the rich' model as advocated by Warren and other American liberals does not work.

Yeah, but in most cases it is a percentage. This is what you guys can't live with, isn't it?
Right now the middle class pays for most of the HC anyway.

[workingclasshero]

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

People don't pay the same dollar amount for taxpayer funded goods, they pay a percentage. The private market charges people the same dollar amount. That's why the line of argument was disingenuous

the point is every tax payer will be paying a lot more out of their individual pockets, for a crappy medicare (80/20 government INSURANCE), which has lots of denial of care....


the individual (rich, middle, work, poor) gets screwed.....there will be 2 million + jobs lost because of it...and less workers means less tax base... which means the people that work and pay taxes, get screwed

[Freak80]

Every other first world country has a universal healthcare system or something close to it. And they pay less for healthcare than we do.

I guess we Americans really are exceptional.

[workingclasshero]

Originally Posted by Freak80

Every other first world country has a universal healthcare system or something close to it. And they pay less for healthcare than we do.

I guess we Americans really are exceptional.

their doctors and nurses are paid less
they have lower property taxes
they have less malpractice costs..and less lawyers
they have longer waits..longer to the point of people dying in the hallways
they have the more efficient (and cheaper) clinic model -vs- our hospital model
they tax everyone....every one has skin in the game..they have a LESS "progressive" tax systems than us


and many of those "other first world countries" systems are failing


https://www.politico.eu/article/euro...blic-services/
Europe’s health care systems are on life support
Doctors have been threatening massive strikes in Britain to protest pay and conditions. Italian regions are going bankrupt trying to fund medicines. Drugmakers are pulling diabetes drugs from Germany, blaming government-set prices that don’t let them recoup their investment.




https://www.politico.eu/sponsored-co...ustainability/
European health systems are facing big challenges. In addition to aging populations, the rise in chronic diseases and the current constraints on public finances, European health care systems are now required to deliver more and better care with fewer resources. Traditional health care systems — designed to deliver acute care — won’t be able to cope with these challenges without a fundamental transformation. AbbVie and the European Steering Group (ESG) for Sustainable Healthcare are working to raise awareness of this complex issue and to develop, test and upscale solutions across Europe and beyond.




Canada is pushing for private insurance
canada has a NHC,,,and its starting to PRIVATIZE


Quote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/28/in.../28canada.html
Canada's Private Clinics Surge as Public System Falters
The country's publicly financed health insurance system — frequently described as the third rail of its political system and a core value of its national identity — is gradually breaking down. Private clinics are opening around the country by an estimated one a week, and private insurance companies are about to find a gold mine.




The head of Canada's Medical Assn. says they are in need of a major overhaul in order not to collapse.


canada.com | Article

The personal bankruptcy rate was actually higher in Canada in 2006 and 2007 (0.30 percent for both years) than in the United States (0.20 percent and .27 percent).
* Medical reasons were cited as the primary cause of bankruptcy by approximately 15 percent of bankrupt Canadian seniors (55 years of age and older).
* Non-medical expenditures comprise the majority of debt among bankrupt consumers in both Canada and the United States; the inability to earn sufficient income to cover these costs -- not exposure to uninsured medical costs -- is the real explanation for almost all bankruptcies in either country.

https://mises.org/wire/universal-hea...rnment-failure

greece is in the RED



germany is in the RED,
PUBLIC GERMAN acute hospitals face bankruptcy

even France is going BROKE on their health care system....the spent 350 billion to cover 65 million (their population)

spain.........bankrupt
italy..........failing

belguim......failing
iceland.......bankrupt


finland....nearly the entire government resigned over failed health care reform this year (2019)
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47496326

portugal.......bankrupt








https://fee.org/articles/if-american...re-kills-more/
A study titled The Effect of Wait Times on Mortality in Canada estimated that “increases in wait times for medically necessary care in Canada between 1993 and 2009 may have resulted in between 25,456 and 63,090 (with a middle value of 44,273) additional deaths among females.” Adjusting for the difference in populations (the US has about 9 times as many people), that middle value inflates to an estimated 400,000 additional deaths among females over a 16 year period. This translates to an estimated 25,000 additional female deaths each year if the American system were to suffer from increased mortality similar to that experienced in Canada due to increases in wait times. A system that disproportionately harms women? How progressive.


According to the CDC, stroke is the cause of more than 130,000 deaths annually in the United States. However, the US has significantly lower rates of 30-day stroke-induced mortality than every other OECD country, aside from Japan and Korea. OECD data suggest that the age- and sex-adjusted mortality rates within Europe would translate to tens of thousands of additional deaths in the US....If America had the 30-day stroke-mortality rate of the UK, for example, we could expect about an additional 38,000 deaths a year. For Canada, that number would be around 43,500. And this only accounts for mortality within a month of having a stroke

[zach_33]

I thought people wanted their leaders to deliver unvarnished truth. Apparently y'all would prefer to be lied to right up until the lights go out.

[Grlzrl]

Originally Posted by Rakin

Plus over 2 million Jobs lost. It would devastate the US Economy and raise taxes and costs enormously for EVERY American.

Just like the Obamacare lies but 100 times even bigger. If she admits to $52 Trillion, can you imagine the actual real costs ?

https://twitter.com/yohiobaseball/st...99866783764486

Haha. And this is just ONE Of her big government giveaway programs.