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Old 11-04-2019, 12:37 PM
 
Location: colorado springs, CO
9,512 posts, read 6,057,661 times
Reputation: 28830

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Talk about moving the goalposts! And as an RN, you should know that not all deaths can be prevented, even in a "first world" country. Some pneumonias are viral, with no antiviral agents to treat them. How do you know all 148 (80% of 186) died of secondary pneumonia?
Won't know for sure until final data comes out but historically, it is pneumonia, not influenza.
https://www.lung.org/assets/document...end-report.pdf Page 9.

2010: death rate for secondary pneumonia was 36.6. From influenza was 0.2.

ALL 186 would be vulnerable to this. You were there during those threads back then. Same story over & over: Had flu. Went to doctor. Sent home. Found dead from pneumonia.

Should have been admitted & treated for pneumonia but many didn't even get a chest x-ray. They could have saved a lot but fewer deaths from 'flu' = lower demand for the vaccine.

 
Old 11-04-2019, 12:46 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,475,124 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by coschristi View Post
Won't know for sure until final data comes out but historically, it is pneumonia, not influenza.
https://www.lung.org/assets/document...end-report.pdf Page 9.

2010: death rate for secondary pneumonia was 36.6. From influenza was 0.2.

ALL 186 would be vulnerable to this. You were there during those threads back then. Same story over & over: Had flu. Went to doctor. Sent home. Found dead from pneumonia.

Should have been admitted & treated for pneumonia but many didn't even get a chest x-ray. They could have saved a lot but fewer deaths from 'flu' = lower demand for the vaccine.
Please post some statistics to support this. Remember that pediatric deaths are tracked differently. I don't think the bold is true. See this:
https://www.aappublications.org/news...3/01/flu030119
"Young children have the second-highest hospitalization rate at 45.5 per 100,000 children. Among hospitalized children with information available, 43.8% had an underlying medical condition, most commonly asthma."
Sure sounds like kids are being hospitalized. Our office hospitalized kids with flu. And almost 60% were otherwise healthy.
 
Old 11-04-2019, 12:46 PM
 
Location: colorado springs, CO
9,512 posts, read 6,057,661 times
Reputation: 28830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1 View Post
You did not point out where anything I said was inaccurate or misleading. Yes the day may come where individuals can be screen/tested to make sure a vaccine/medication will not be harmful, but that is unlikely in my view. The cost alone would be a massive use of limited resources. So we do the clinical trials and studies along with monitoring of patients reactions to various medical treatments.
Pharmacogenomics & Vaccinomics is doable.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2722448/

The amount of people with contraindications likely would compromise herd immunity, so it may be preferred that we just stay an acceptable loss.
 
Old 11-04-2019, 12:49 PM
 
10,198 posts, read 6,274,942 times
Reputation: 11270
Obviously, Katarina and Suzy Q, you know that Herd Immunity does not only refer to vaccinated immunity. You both are in the generation of acquired natural immunity to measles. Having these diseases also confers lifetime immunity and does contribute to the "herd" as well, as with our elderly generation. Every person who caught measles during that Disney and NY Measles now has measles immunity for life as well.

Mothers only pass on their measles immunity to their babies in the first six month of life? Since I caught measles at 6 months old, I will grant you that. However, there is a caveat to that. My measles immune Mom never breastfed me. Antibodies to disease are passed through breast milk to babies beyond 6 months old. Dispute that. All of my friends and classmates caught measles much older than I did. Maybe because their mothers breastfed them beyond 6 months?

While I cannot remember my own measles, rubella, mumps, or chicken pox under 2 years old, I certainly saw it enough in my friends and classmates growing up, I can tell the difference between a measles and chicken pox rash. Today doctors can't????

I do not care if you call elderly me an anti-vaxxer. Call it my religion or philosophical beliefs, but I believe that all human beings were meant to get sick, suffer, and die. Cannot quote specific verses, but I do know that the Bible talks about this. Medical Science thinks they have now become God where they can and want to eliminate what all living beings were meant to have.
 
Old 11-04-2019, 12:54 PM
 
1,877 posts, read 673,515 times
Reputation: 1072
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
There were very few vaccines when I was born in the 1940's. We got sick, did not die, and grew up to have children, and grandchildren.
Well, apart from the ones who did die...
 
Old 11-04-2019, 12:57 PM
 
1,877 posts, read 673,515 times
Reputation: 1072
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
Call it my religion or philosophical beliefs, but I believe that all human beings were meant to get sick, suffer, and die.
Well that's nice, might as well kill everybody at birth in that case!
 
Old 11-04-2019, 01:00 PM
 
10,198 posts, read 6,274,942 times
Reputation: 11270
Quote:
Originally Posted by MnM258 View Post
Well, apart from the ones who did die...
Of course, the fear factor and it might be YOU which they try with flu vaccination. Is that working? If the majority of we elderly didn't survive these childhood diseases, there would be no younger generations.
 
Old 11-04-2019, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,475,124 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
Obviously, Katarina and Suzy Q, you know that Herd Immunity does not only refer to vaccinated immunity. You both are in the generation of acquired natural immunity to measles. Having these diseases also confers lifetime immunity and does contribute to the "herd" as well, as with our elderly generation. Every person who caught measles during that Disney and NY Measles now has measles immunity for life as well.

Mothers only pass on their measles immunity to their babies in the first six month of life? Since I caught measles at 6 months old, I will grant you that. However, there is a caveat to that. My measles immune Mom never breastfed me. Antibodies to disease are passed through breast milk to babies beyond 6 months old. Dispute that. All of my friends and classmates caught measles much older than I did. Maybe because their mothers breastfed them beyond 6 months?

While I cannot remember my own measles, rubella, mumps, or chicken pox under 2 years old, I certainly saw it enough in my friends and classmates growing up, I can tell the difference between a measles and chicken pox rash. Today doctors can't????

I do not care if you call elderly me an anti-vaxxer. Call it my religion or philosophical beliefs, but I believe that all human beings were meant to get sick, suffer, and die. Cannot quote specific verses, but I do know that the Bible talks about this. Medical Science thinks they have now become God where they can and want to eliminate what all living beings were meant to have.
Re: the bold-or maybe not.
https://seattlemamadoc.seattlechildr...ty-breastmilk/
"When it comes to breastfeeding and passive immunity coming from mom, the data is a little murky. The strongest point I can make is that stronger protection comes from vertical transmission (in-utero immunity passed on by mom through the placenta directly to baby) than from antibodies in breastmilk. We know there is likely some immune protection against measles in breastmilk, but its utility is not known or trusted. If you are breastfeeding, your baby is not receiving full protection against any infection from your breastmilk. Measles is no different – and I’d say even harder to protect against compared to other infections because it is so contagious and so serious." Over my limit-read the link.

Yes, "herd immunity" is a term that was coined well before there were many vaccines available, in 1923.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
Of course, the fear factor and it might be YOU which they try with flu vaccination. Is that working? If the majority of we elderly didn't survive these childhood diseases, there would be no younger generations.
People used to have 6-8 kids so that 3-4 would grow up to adulthood, and 2 or so would be able to reproduce.
 
Old 11-04-2019, 01:32 PM
 
21,382 posts, read 7,900,597 times
Reputation: 18149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Do you consider it "beg(ging) and bully(ing)"?



Good For You. Anyone may respond to any post on CD, and you mentioned me in the post, making untrue claims about me.
Your behavior is begging and bullying. All anyone has to do is read your posts. Don't like it? Change your behavior.

Stop advertising for vaccines every thread you start and every post you add. [beg]
Stop yelling about how uninformed/stupid people who choose not to vaccinate are. [bully]

/shrug/
 
Old 11-04-2019, 01:57 PM
 
10,198 posts, read 6,274,942 times
Reputation: 11270
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
Your behavior is begging and bullying. All anyone has to do is read your posts. Don't like it? Change your behavior.

Stop advertising for vaccines every thread you start and every post you add. [beg]
Stop yelling about how uninformed/stupid people who choose not to vaccinate are. [bully]

/shrug/
We have two nameless posters who go on every vaccine related thread, including for adult vaccinations. You want begging and pleading? Try flu shots. ROFL They must be tearing their hair out they cannot legislate mandatory vaccination for that one. Raise the insurance rates for those in non-compliance for vaccines. I am sure you have heard that one on here.

Bully, Nanny State Medical Tyranny IMHO.
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