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They should be trained to de-esculate, wait for back-up and use only necessary force, and perhaps more training in relation to the mentally ill might also help.
Given that officers can take people down with objects such as scissors with a taser or other non lethal, or through rush tactics and shields, as is done every day of the week in terms of violent prisoners with shanks by teams of prison officers.
Mental Health nurses also manage to contain dangerous people without resorting to firearms, and in terms of the UK, the vast majority of police don't even carry a firearm in the first place.
If the woman had pointed a gun at the officers then fair enough, however shooting someone for pointing a pair of scissors is not fair enough, not does it constitute reasonable or necessary force, and that is the law in a lot of western countries outside of the US.
Firstly this is the US not the UK. That being said I am in agreement in regards to de escalation for many types of situations however this wasn't one where the suspect was going to be talked down. Yesssss we are all quite aware that UK cops don't carry a firearm on patrol. Again this is not the UK and that UK cops are mostly unarmed is something I find less than impressive touchy feely as that is. I am NOT of the "comply or die" mindset insofar as "following LE orders" as many on here are and I have been and will continue to be critical of LE for going to the sidearm out of hand, but sometimes it is the best choice.
A deranged unstable woman with a pair of scissors is not a threat to take lightly. A lot of things can go wrong with trying to disarm and subdue a suspect armed with an edged weapon. Man or woman. COs do indeed take on convicts thus but the rules are a bit different in prison. Taking firearms into the holding areas is highly restricted for a good reason. I don't think I need elaborate on that reason as it's glaringly obvious. If I were on the street and found myself facing a threat armed with an edged weapon I would shoot that threat dead.
No if ands or buts. In this case since the woman decided to charge being that cop I would have done so as well. Trying to talk her down became a non option as soon as she decided to attack. Taser? Maybe. OC? Ummm...not if it's my life on the line and the Taser being a "maybe" in halting the threat puts it in that category as well. And US cops don't need to call for an armed response team and wait for them to show up to halt a threat. If LTLs are the answer for crazed perps with edged weapons which you assure us UK cops would employ how's that working out for all the Islamawacko knife attacks there? Yeah, I'm sure UK street cops feel well equipped to deal with Abdul Shalamalama Ding Dong wielding his meat cutters tool with their little canister of OC or whatever the powers that be allow them to have.
You have a posting history of holding the UK up against the US in LE issues involving use of lethal force. You won't see me backing every single use of the latter by US cops. Not hardly. But I also sure won't get on board with them not having that option.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NVplumber
Firstly this is the US not the UK. That being said I am in agreement in regards to de escalation for many types of situations however this wasn't one where the suspect was going to be talked down. Yesssss we are all quite aware that UK cops don't carry a firearm on patrol. Again this is not the UK and that UK cops are mostly unarmed is something I find less than impressive touchy feely as that is. I am NOT of the "comply or die" mindset insofar as "following LE orders" as many on here are and I have been and will continue to be critical of LE for going to the sidearm out of hand, but sometimes it is the best choice.
A deranged unstable woman with a pair of scissors is not a threat to take lightly. A lot of things can go wrong with trying to disarm and subdue a suspect armed with an edged weapon. Man or woman. COs do indeed take on convicts thus but the rules are a bit different in prison. Taking firearms into the holding areas is highly restricted for a good reason. I don't think I need elaborate on that reason as it's glaringly obvious. If I were on the street and found myself facing a threat armed with an edged weapon I would shoot that threat dead.
No if ands or buts. In this case since the woman decided to charge being that cop I would have done so as well. Trying to talk her down became a non option as soon as she decided to attack. Taser? Maybe. OC? Ummm...not if it's my life on the line and the Taser being a "maybe" in halting the threat puts it in that category as well. And US cops don't need to call for an armed response team and wait for them to show up to halt a threat. If LTLs are the answer for crazed perps with edged weapons which you assure us UK cops would employ how's that working out for all the Islamawacko knife attacks there? Yeah, I'm sure UK street cops feel well equipped to deal with Abdul Shalamalama Ding Dong wielding his meat cutters tool with their little canister of OC or whatever the powers that be allow them to have.
You have a posting history of holding the UK up against the US in LE issues involving use of lethal force. You won't see me backing every single use of the latter by US cops. Not hardly. But I also sure won't get on board with them not having that option.
European countries conform to the European Convention on Human Rights, which impels its 47 signatories countries including the UK to permit only deadly force that is “absolutely necessary” to achieve a lawful purpose. Killings excused under America’s “reasonable belief” standards often violate Europe’s “absolute necessity” standards. In Europe, killing is considered unnecessary if alternatives exist .
As I have already stated this case would not have met European thresholds in relation to “absolutely necessary”, and this is one of the reasons whilst there are far more police shootings in the US than Europe and many other parts of the civilised world.
Article 2 of the European Convention on Human Rights - 'The Right to Life' imposes on European states an obligation to safeguard life, an obligation to protect the right to life and procedural obligation to investigate deaths resulting from the state’s use of force or from the state’s failure to protect the right to life.
It should be noted that the European Convention on Human Rights is entirely separate to the European Union, and has numerous non EU member signatories including the UK.
In terms of European police most are routinely armed with the exception of police in countries sucg Great Britain and Norway, however in terms of the police in Great Britain, there are highly trained armed police who routinely patrol in armed response vehicles as well as highly specialised firearms teams.
The Right to Life also prevents those wanted for crimes being extradited to the US in order to face execution by the state.
Last edited by Brave New World; 01-24-2022 at 02:49 PM..
Location: Free State of Florida, Support our police
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White cops, Black cops, Hispanic cops, white suspects, black suspects, hispanic suspects. I don't care what race you are. You come at a cop with a dangerous weapon expect to get shot. It is what it is. I support the cop in this shooting as well as the other 99.9% of shootings that occur here in the United States yearly.
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