Is it wrong for the Government to hide anything from the public?

[bobbythegreat]

Originally Posted by No_Recess

Another one who believes government is a deity.

Not in the least, I'm just saying what should be obvious to all but the most naive among us. You come across like a child saying that it's not fair that your parents get to do things that you don't get to. One day perhaps you'll gain the wisdom to free you from your naive idealist nonsense.

From a practical standpoint, the government simply does have to keep certain things from the public.

[No_Recess]

Originally Posted by bobbythegreat

Not in the least, I'm just saying what should be obvious to all but the most naive among us. You come across like a child saying that it's not fair that your parents get to do things that you don't get to. One day perhaps you'll gain the wisdom to free you from your naive idealist nonsense.

From a practical standpoint, the government simply does have to keep certain things from the public.

Well, freedom is as virginal and simple as a child's natural sense of morality so I'll give you that. The creation of different rules for government is your own cross to bear. I sense you've got a long way to go...back to childhood.

[Gungnir]

Originally Posted by bobbythegreat

Not in the least, I'm just saying what should be obvious to all but the most naive among us. You come across like a child saying that it's not fair that your parents get to do things that you don't get to. One day perhaps you'll gain the wisdom to free you from your naive idealist nonsense.

From a practical standpoint, the government simply does have to keep certain things from the public.

Ok, so government isn't a deity, but it's a parent.

Glad we understand your perspective.

In the words of William Makepeace Thackery
"Mother is the name for God in the lips and hearts of little children"

A parent would be mother, thus in the lips and hearts of mothers little children a deity.

[No_Recess]

Originally Posted by Gungnir

Ok, so government isn't a deity, but it's a parent.

Glad we understand your perspective.

In the words of William Makepeace Thackery
"Mother is the name for God in the lips and hearts of little children"

A parent would be mother, thus in the lips and hearts of mothers little children a deity.

Amazing, ain't it?

And like all statists that poster labels us (anarchists, AnCaps, voluntarists, agonists) as the "naive" ones.

[Gungnir]

Originally Posted by No_Recess

Amazing, ain't it?

And like all statists that poster labels us (anarchists, AnCaps, voluntarists, agonists) as the "naive" ones.

Sure, because we're so naive that we won't put someone in a position over us that we wouldn't trust ourselves in that position over others.

At least that's my rationale.

If you put me in a position of ultimate authority I'll either develop terminal analysis paralysis (trying to avoid the law of unintended consequence) and end up not exercising that authority, or exercise it whimsically and capriciously in my own interests, which may be strongly supported by those who share my interests as a beneficial side effect. However in no case would I really be acting in the best interests of my minions.

[No_Recess]

Originally Posted by Gungnir

Sure, because we're so naive that we won't put someone in a position over us that we wouldn't trust ourselves in that position over others.

At least that's my rationale.

If you put me in a position of ultimate authority I'll either develop terminal analysis paralysis (trying to avoid the law of unintended consequence) and end up not exercising that authority, or exercise it whimsically and capriciously in my own interests, which may be strongly supported by those who share my interests as a beneficial side effect. However in no case would I really be acting in the best interests of my minions.

Statism requires sociopathy and megalomania. It truly is that simple.

Unfortunately it's quite apparent any Joe off the street can be indoctrinated with these traits by public education in combination with corporate media.

[Mircea]

Originally Posted by Azureth

Do you think it's wrong for the government to hide anything?

Originally Posted by James Bond 007

Sometimes they have to for national security.

Originally Posted by Floorist

They lied during the Vietnam war to sway public opinion. Was that right?

The government often confuses National Embarrassment with National Security.

Like when your government murdered 89 Americans in illegal radiation experiments at Cincinnati General Hospital. The death toll could be greater than 380 murdered Americans, but those documents are still classified for reasons of National Embarrassment and not National Security.

There's a right way to to do things and a wrong way do things and the government has a penchant for choosing the wrong way.

It's important to understand the effects of radiation exposure. I get that, and no one gets that more than me.

The moral thing to do was tell those people, hey, look, these experiments are very important to protect our soldiers and Americans and the soldiers and populations of our Allies. We won't be naming high schools after you, but we will pay for your medical expenses and compensate you and your family.

But government didn't have the moral courage to do that. They did it secretly. Those people very obviously became sick and incurred medical expenses that they had to pay out-of-pocket and which insurance had to pay, which means we all paid for it, and then refused to compensate the families.

It took a federal judge to order the government to reimburse for medical costs and compensate the families.

Originally Posted by James Bond 007

Sometimes also for the safety of individuals.

That's not inherently national security, but methods and means are.

When you get documents under FOIA, the black-out/redacted parts are typically sources, meaning methods and means. That could be people, or it could be a satellite, or aerial recon, or electronic intelligence gathering.

Obviously, if the government has an agent inside the government of another, the US wants to protect them (and their families) if for no other reason than if government doesn't, it makes it near impossible to recruit agents in the future.

No one's going to work for the US if the US publishes their name because some sniveling SJW threw a temper tantrum.