Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You think the USA would sit back and let Poland be invaded? Would we sit back and let them capture "Fort Trump", when it is completed?
I doubt you know much about the real Russia, and it's history. The winters were the most effective tool for combating their enemies, but their armies were generally useless and almost always led by losers. The only thing their soldiers were ever good at doing was dying, which they usually did at a 2 to 1 ratio compared to the enemy, on a good day. They've won the hard way a few times now and again, but that's a mighty tall mountain to climb, even when fighting equally incompetent, or far weaker armies.
Being proud of dying is fine and dandy, but you don't win wars by dying.
Crimea has a large ethnic Russian population who identify as Russians. Crimea historically was part of Russia. Russia did a good job of proving that Europe has not changed. Europe had no interest in standing up to the aggressors, so it was very easy for Putin to scoop up and collect that region. I believe there is a warm water naval base or port there that the Russians were more or less renting. And now it's theirs outright.
It was definitely worth it for him. I believe some sanctions were applied, the Russians continuing slurping Putin's vodka without a care in the world, and Putin has added a strategically important region to their federation.
Syria and Russia are allies. If the Syrian government wants them there, why should we care, and what right do we have to say they can't be there?
Let's at least put some of this in context....
Russia gdp per capita for 2016 was $8,745, a 6.1% decline from 2015.
Russia gdp per capita for 2015 was $9,314, a 33.95% decline from 2014.
The sanctions HURT Russia big time.
Putin popularity is down from 85-90% to mid 60's
"As Russians get poorer, anger at official corruption has been steadily growing, driving down Putin’s popularity ratings. According to independent pollster Levada, 66 percent of Russians approved of the leader in May, 2019 — still strong by most standards, but close to the lowest for Putin in six years. "
Now - the Crimea.
It should be noted Crimea, Ukraine, Chechnya and MANY other areas of Russia (most all outside of Moscow and St. Petes) were forcibly resettled by Moscow - that is, they forced the populations (by the millions) to "relocate" to other parts of Russia (even Siberia!) and then forced other Russians to move to these areas. That has been their way for about 90 years, so when you say "it was Russia and they identify as Russia", that is partially due to "ethic cleansing" of a sort. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popula...e_Soviet_Union
I'm not saying what is right and good, but hopefully people here realize that RUSSIA THEMSELVES as well as most of the rest of the world signed a treaty relatively recently promising no aggression against Ukraine (which included Crimea) if Ukraine gave up their vast amount of nukes.
This is one big reason this is such a big deal. Russia's crimes against Ukraine are manifold and include the deaths of millions (starvation, execution) and the forced settlement and now the current war.
The USA, or at least our "Commander" has now basically declared he is not on the same side as Ukraine...that is, he and Manafort and Guliani and crew all would rather the Russian-Backed Prez who was kicked out was installed back in power.
Lots of Poles work in the UK and Ireland because their own country can't provide enough employment opportunities. When I asked a friend of mine who's Polish why many of her compatriots work overseas, she said, "We're like the Mexicans of Europe. We export our labor."
Indeed. Eastern Europeans are badly exploited in Western Europe..
I'm not saying what is right and good, but hopefully people here realize that RUSSIA THEMSELVES as well as most of the rest of the world signed a treaty relatively recently promising no aggression against Ukraine (which included Crimea) if Ukraine gave up their vast amount of nukes.
This is one big reason this is such a big deal. Russia's crimes against Ukraine are manifold and include the deaths of millions (starvation, execution) and the forced settlement and now the current war.
The USA, or at least our "Commander" has now basically declared he is not on the same side as Ukraine...that is, he and Manafort and Guliani and crew all would rather the Russian-Backed Prez who was kicked out was installed back in power.
Nobody trusted Russia or their word before they took Crimea. After Crimea, nothing changed regarding Russia's reputation. It was simply Russia doing what Russia does, without a care in the world what the west thinks, because they know there will be no retaliation or force to stop them.
By the way, Obama was not on Ukraine's side either, judging by his ineffectiveness. Even if you argue he was on Ukraine's side, so what? What did he do to change the outcome other than flap his gums and prove how ineffective and lazy the west has become? Trump is just as useless to Ukraine as well, but he doesn't try to hide it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Candle
You've watched too much History Channel.
I don't own a television. But I have read many books on the topic throughout my life. Warfare happens to be a very significant part of human history, and WW2 in particular was like nothing the world has ever seen before. If we ignore history, we will inevitably repeat it, and all it's horrors.
I wonder why all the White Nationalists who are here on C-D don't head over to Poland and Russia? These days they can even get a Big Mac there.
They can set up a perfect society there and school the world on how it is done.
It isn't just Russia and Poland though, a lot of these sentiments are pervasive across Eastern Europe.
You could even argue that Trump is an Eastern European president. By that, I mean that a good part of his support comes from Eastern Europeans that settled the Midwest. Russians, Poles, Ukrainians, Hungarian, Poles, Greeks, Serbs...
It has nothing to do with Russian interference itself, but Eastern European immigrants played a significant role in his election (this isn't meant as a criticism btw, it's an observation)
The Russians would be pushed back to Siberia before they know what hits them.
European superpowers like Napoleon's France and Nazi Germany didn't even make it halfway to Siberia. What makes you think Poland that has a third of Russia's GDP, 1/4th of Russia's population, and a much much much smaller military would be able to do so
Quote:
when they lost BADLY to humble, meek Finland in the Winter War
When did the USSR lose to Finland? By all accounts it was a victory, even if a pyrrhic one
Quote:
Europeans don't like to get down and dirty fighting these kinds of wars
Europeans ARE the ones who start these kinds of wars
Quote:
America, however, is another animal
America took years to join WWII, you do know that, right?
1. Poland was on "both sides". MANY POLES were loyal to Germany or were actual Germans. Even among the Polish, many people liked the idea of German civilization. Poles were very glad to help the Nazis kill and round up Jews, with many of the spoils going to the Poles.
2. Stalin, before the war, had taken Ukraine by "force of starvation" and killed 3 Million plus there...wiped out their language and culture (this continues today.....and Trump is on the wrong side!). Ukraine became the killing Ground for the Nazis and the Ukrainians paid dearly...and, again, many of them would have preferred to side with Poland/Germany but they couldn't. In fact, that's part of the reason Stalin killed so many of them...to destroy any possible attempt of them to organize.
Without the stuff we and other westerners sent to Russia they would have been taken over. Now...I don't know if that is a bad thing or not, since the Russians have never gotten it together and maybe today they'd be part of a Greater (but beaten) Germany and act civilized instead of still being 100's of years behind the rest of the world in terms of rights.
Ukraine was part of Russia since 1654.
Just saying.
Melania (as well as to an extent Ivana) also wield considerable influence in the present administration. They remember the tyranny and bleakness of socialism.
Poland's economy is better now than it ever was under socialism. But Poland's glory days are long behind her. Stolen repeatedly for hundreds of years by the thieves of Europe, since that's the only way they have learned to accumulate wealth. And they are trying to do it again today. The Poles will not accept thuggery from the EU because they have seen this before, and they know what happens if they do nothing.
Poland is a very safe country to live in. Their priorities are different than yours however. The lustful pursuits of accumulating stuff while sacrificing national identity simply doesn't appeal to them. They understand, there is more to life. They also see no use in diversity, and will continue to reject it, so they will always be seen as inferior by lefties around the world.
Andywire. I agree with a lot of what you say, this for example. I can't see why Poles have to sell their country to another. There was a retired Polish general recently said that he served in the Polish army when it was a member of the Warsaw Pact and the master was in Moscow. Now Polish soldiers serve yet another master.
Russia at this time is in no position to attack anyone in Europe. Keep its own borders stable and defend its local interests it can do. Defend itself strategically also but they don't have the power nor a reason to go after any nation to their west. Look it up, do your research.
Ukraine was part of Russia since 1654.
Just saying.
Look into the name Ukraine.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
