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Location: Somewhere between the Americas and Western Europe
2,180 posts, read 640,315 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324
Murray is delusional; Modern day liberalism has nothing to do with socialism, in fact it is inherently consumerist with obsessions about social media and connectivity.
Douglas just wants to distract from big capital and private equity firms so people shut up and obey people with power.
He lays out his case with citations to Marxist scholars who openly state that the class struggle is not the way to bring about socialist revolution. Those same scholars (who watched socialism collapse around them in the 1980s) identified minority group struggle as the key to bringing down the social hierarchy and fundamental revolution.
It's in black and white. What do you you base your (non) argument on that Douglas is trying to "distract" people from private equity firms? He is conservative but he's got you socialists and leftists pegged for the absolute cancer cells that you are.
Socialism was ruined long before millennials, or baby boomers, or most other groups were ever born.
Socialism was a flawed concept from its very inception, offering little or no incentive for human individuals to exert themselves and work hard. It has failed virtually every time it's tried, and was doing so long before any of those groups came around.
It may be that the fatal flaws in socialism first became publicly noticed around the turn of the millenium, when the latest group took their turn at trying and advocating it only to see it blow up in their faces (again)... and then they publicized it. So the general population finally became aware of just how bad socialism is and always had been.
But, no, millennials didn't ruin it. They may have displayed to the world at last just how bad it was. But that wasn't news to most people who bothered looking into it. Because socialism has always been that bad.
You should NEVER ask on a US forum about Socialism, Communism, Social Democracy, Democratic Socialism... etc etc etc...
Most of them have NO clue what the H**l they are talking about...
Capitalism good.
Socialism bad.
Thats the depth of their "knowledge"...
Its what 80 years of propaganda does to a population. Americans are the most successfully brainwashed populous in human history. You know you can get a degree in economics from an American university and not once have to read a single word of Marx. You learn the ins and outs of the capitalist economic system but at no point read a single word of its most effective and ardent critic.
I am not a millennial, but I do think people overgeneralize and stereotype them to a ridiculous degree. I have 5 millennial nieces and nephews. First thing they did upon graduating college was move to NYC. Three of them are making 6 figures and the others immediately found good jobs.
They are total capitalists--not one socialist in the bunch. I don't get where this is coming from. May be the wrong age group.
When has outright socialism ever worked? What is there to ruin?
There are socialist policies and concepts littered throughout our and other economic and political systems. Social security being one of them. Another is the 40 hour work week, etc. In Europe you see socialist policies in the way of universal healthcare, free college and university education.
An exploration and acceptance of socialist concepts and ideas would do wonders for the American working and middle class.
The "pyramid of oppression" on identity politics issues is just a recast of the old Marxist "pyramid of oppression" with capitalists on the top and workers on the bottom.
The working class let the Marxists down. So, how else to create a new revolutionary class? Identity politics.
It's not possible to recast the working class and the rich with identity politics. If you do so then what you end up with is no longer marxism, but fascism. While marxists and fascists are both radicals who want to overthrow the system, the difference is who they blame. Marxists believe in a struggle between the poor and capitalists. Fascists believe in a struggle between races and/or nations. If you swap out the poor and rich with different identities/races then what you end up with is basically fascism rather than socialism.
He lays out his case with citations to Marxist scholars who openly state that the class struggle is not the way to bring about socialist revolution. Those same scholars (who watched socialism collapse around them in the 1980s) identified minority group struggle as the key to bringing down the social hierarchy and fundamental revolution.
I'm a socialist. I a am not an American and live in Europe. I believe that capitalism is a failed system of economy that is riddled with paradoxes and contradictions and that it's not a sustainable system of economy in the long run. I have educated myself about the failures of capitalism by studying the work of Marx and Engels and I agree with much of what they said.
Unfortunately, I'm extremely nihilistic and blackpilled about the future of socialism...
In the past, socialism use to be a (mostly) scientific ideology that focused on social class and materialism. It rejected for the most part romantic and unscientific concepts like religion, while also calling out corrupt systems like globalism and neo-liberalism. Then somewhere between 1990-2015 something terrible happened....
...millennial sjws grew up and infected the socialist movement
It's almost impossible to describe how much damage these brats have caused the socialist movement. Almost literally everything that socialism use to stand for has now been destroyed. But before you can understand why, it's important to first give a brief overview of what socialism actually is since lots of people have massive misconceptions about socialism.
Basically, the premise of socialism is that the concept of wage labor in a capitalist economy is a form of exploitation since the capitalist can make money of the labor of someone else. So if a capitalist pays a worker 10$ per hour to produce 20$ worth of value per hour and then pockets the remaining 10$ for himself, then that is a form of exploitation since the capitalist gets to profit of labor that he himself was not responsible for. And thus, from the point of view of socialism capitalism is basically theft and should be done away with in favor of a socialist society where workers reap the benefits of the means of production rather than the capitalist whom from the point of view of the exploited workers are merely a parasite class.
In addition to the above, socialism also believes (or USE to believe...more on that later) that concepts like nationalism, religion etc are just trickery that the ruling classes use in order to keep the lower classes divided so that they don't unite against the wealthy.
And that is how it use to be. Until millennial sjws happened
First, let's explain why sjws even exist.
Sjws are basically what happens when you combine spoiled and poor upbringing with narcissism and entitlement mentality. This is very important to remember, because it gives context to the things that they believe and why they believe it, and why their version of "socialism" is so much more different (and worse) compared to earlier generations of socialists.
So what makes this new generation of "socialists" so much worse? Mostly 7 things:
1. Rejection of the class conflict theory in favor of nonsense identity politics. This is largely in part because many sjws are themselves spoiled brats belonging to the wealthier classes and as a result making it all about social class/money would risk making them look stupid. So instead they shift the focus away from money/class over to something else, and in doing so basically defeat the purpose of marxism by implying money doesn't really matter. So according to their garbage belief system a black billionaire is more oppressed than a poor white person for example. This is literally the reverse of what marx believed and in fact is arguably more similar to far-right ideology than marxism.
2. The incorporation of garbage movements like feminism and LGBT nonsense into the socialist movement even though neither of those things have anything to do with socialism or criticism of capitalism. In fact historically most socialist regimes prior to the end of the cold war were actually anti-LGBT and forced traditional marriage values on their populations.
3. Disregard for the welfare of the poor in favor of dogmatic environmentalism that negatively effects the lower classes, just so that they can feel morally superior. By comparison the soviet union considered environmentalism a form of bourgeois snobbery (which it is) and wanted nothing to do with it.
4. Embracing open borders even though it's wildly unpopular in many cases even among minorities (blacks in the USA for example don't like open borders). This is largely because sjws themselves as pointed out earlier often belong to the wealthier classes and don't care about the poor despite of their claims of otherwise.
5. Embracing neo-liberalism. This is perhaps the most hilarious one. Because many socialists are now just spoiled rich white kids whom only care about useless garbage like identity and climate change they are actually totally cool with destructive neo-liberal policies like globalism and support globalist policies such as free trade and the EU. In fact many of these "socialists" aren't even really socialists at all because of this.
6. Refusal to admit foreign cultures can't always coexist with socialism. Take for example Islam which is as anti-socialist as it gets to a point where even some liberal figures like Bill Maher has admitted Islam is dangerous and yet everybody just dismisses this as a right-wing meme. lol ok.
7. Total lack of tolerance for any debate or criticism on the current state of the socialist movement. Literally every single socialist reddit or forum I have found imposes draconian rules about what is or isn't allowed to be discussed and will ban anybody that so much as hints at the idea that the current state of the movement is garbage and that all this sjw nonsense is worthless. I blame this on the spoiled nature of millennials whom were never taught to respect anybody but themselves. That's not even mentioning the extreme level of emotional fragility of these dumb children whom are so mentally weak that they felt the need to invent laughable concepts such as "micro-agressions" and "trigger-warnings". Any meaningful discussion on anything in any socialist space is basically impossible now which means there is zero chance of the movement ever being reformed.
So to summarize:
Pre-millennial socialism:
-Workers are being harmed through wage exploitation -Capitalism is bad -People should look past race & religion and unite against the rich -Creating opportunities for the poor is important
Millennial sjw socialism:
-Rich black people are being harmed through mean tweets -Capitalism is bad sometimes but ok if I get cheaper Iphones through third world exploitation -Race is extremely important to our identity and some races are innately evil and oppressive -Saving the trees is more important than creating jobs or welfare for the poor
So yea, I'm really pissed. Socialism is a valid ideology, but I feel that it's now been completely ruined beyond repair by these brats
SJWS has nothing to do with Socialism, but are products of capitalism.
I voted no. Why? SJWS, Feminists, pro black identarian like BLM, and lGBT has nothing to due with socialism and our movement products created by ailing capitalist system in America, and in much of the five white Anglo Saxon states including Ireland and South Africa. The reasons why we see all of this Feminism stuff, black people wanting reparations, and LGBT stuff is due to the failures of the 2008 major recession. Yes feminism does come in waves, but I don't know how LGBT stuff was brought into Socialism.
I don't think SJW's are running socialism. I can guarantee if an SJW took a time machine on an iPhone app and went to Socialist Nazi Germany, and Socialist Soviet Union, such types of people will run back to modern day capitalist America. SJW's really want to maintain and keep the capitalist status quo, they really don't want Socialism which puts people in prison, keeps people from leaving, while outsiders can not enter the country illegally, puts blame on particulre groups of people, such as Nazis with gays, Jews and gypsies, while Soviet Union puts blame on wealthy, Jews, LGBT and other ethnic groups. The list goes on. And not for nothing capitalism and democracy is not any better either( Not even Bernie Sanders wants to do this).
They are some aspcets in which todays SJW's are like socialist. Examples are universal healthcare. Free college. Social Credit system like in Communist China. We are seeing this right now in which SJW's are telling banks or making inroads in banking and not letting banks do businesses with racists, sexist homophobes, and taking away their assets. Sjws are also very surveillance with open privacy like the Nazis Gestapo and Soviet NKVD and later KGB. In some ways SJW's are not socialist. Socialist tend to have close borders, while SJW's want open borders. SJW's also support open markets and not closed nationalized markets like what the world saw in Cuba, Fascist Italy, Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union. Hey, the SJW's needs Apple factories in China to push out the latest greatest iPhone in order to get the next idiot on America's street corner to get fired from their job for saying the N word.
If I wanted to implement socialism. This is what I would do. I would close borders and make it difficult for people to leave and to enter. Nationalize all corporations international and domestic. Universal healthcare, free college, free daycare. Great limit free speech against the government and or state. Corporations can not produce for profits, but must produce for the state, and or means of production are controlled by the workers. All that I have mentioned are elements of socialism, and the SJW of the white and academic Anglo Saxon world do not follow such notions. If anything SJW ideology sounds more Puritan or faith based than Socialist, but in a secular format. Also SJWs believe in revisionist history.
However SJW's can take Nazi playbook and Soviet playbook. Remove Jews, and Wealthy landowners and replace with men, straight men or straight white males.
Last edited by Checkmarkblue; 11-14-2019 at 01:51 PM..
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