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View Poll Results: Do you agree that millennials have ruined socialism?
Yes 18 45.00%
No 22 55.00%
Voters: 40. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-16-2019, 07:30 AM
 
2,892 posts, read 1,820,998 times
Reputation: 6159

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Socialism is always wrong, millennials have just put it on display for everyone else.
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Old 11-16-2019, 07:33 AM
 
Location: Charleston, SC
7,103 posts, read 5,939,124 times
Reputation: 5712
Quote:
Originally Posted by splattenburgers View Post
First post btw!

A bit of a backstory about myself...

I'm a socialist. I a am not an American and live in Europe. I believe that capitalism is a failed system of economy that is riddled with paradoxes and contradictions and that it's not a sustainable system of economy in the long run. I have educated myself about the failures of capitalism by studying the work of Marx and Engels and I agree with much of what they said.

Unfortunately, I'm extremely nihilistic and blackpilled about the future of socialism...

In the past, socialism use to be a (mostly) scientific ideology that focused on social class and materialism. It rejected for the most part romantic and unscientific concepts like religion, while also calling out corrupt systems like globalism and neo-liberalism. Then somewhere between 1990-2015 something terrible happened....


...millennial sjws grew up and infected the socialist movement

It's almost impossible to describe how much damage these brats have caused the socialist movement. Almost literally everything that socialism use to stand for has now been destroyed. But before you can understand why, it's important to first give a brief overview of what socialism actually is since lots of people have massive misconceptions about socialism.

Basically, the premise of socialism is that the concept of wage labor in a capitalist economy is a form of exploitation since the capitalist can make money of the labor of someone else. So if a capitalist pays a worker 10$ per hour to produce 20$ worth of value per hour and then pockets the remaining 10$ for himself, then that is a form of exploitation since the capitalist gets to profit of labor that he himself was not responsible for. And thus, from the point of view of socialism capitalism is basically theft and should be done away with in favor of a socialist society where workers reap the benefits of the means of production rather than the capitalist whom from the point of view of the exploited workers are merely a parasite class.

In addition to the above, socialism also believes (or USE to believe...more on that later) that concepts like nationalism, religion etc are just trickery that the ruling classes use in order to keep the lower classes divided so that they don't unite against the wealthy.

And that is how it use to be. Until millennial sjws happened

First, let's explain why sjws even exist.

Sjws are basically what happens when you combine spoiled and poor upbringing with narcissism and entitlement mentality. This is very important to remember, because it gives context to the things that they believe and why they believe it, and why their version of "socialism" is so much more different (and worse) compared to earlier generations of socialists.

So what makes this new generation of "socialists" so much worse? Mostly 7 things:


1. Rejection of the class conflict theory in favor of nonsense identity politics. This is largely in part because many sjws are themselves spoiled brats belonging to the wealthier classes and as a result making it all about social class/money would risk making them look stupid. So instead they shift the focus away from money/class over to something else, and in doing so basically defeat the purpose of marxism by implying money doesn't really matter. So according to their garbage belief system a black billionaire is more oppressed than a poor white person for example. This is literally the reverse of what marx believed and in fact is arguably more similar to far-right ideology than marxism.


2. The incorporation of garbage movements like feminism and LGBT nonsense into the socialist movement even though neither of those things have anything to do with socialism or criticism of capitalism. In fact historically most socialist regimes prior to the end of the cold war were actually anti-LGBT and forced traditional marriage values on their populations.


3. Disregard for the welfare of the poor in favor of dogmatic environmentalism that negatively effects the lower classes, just so that they can feel morally superior. By comparison the soviet union considered environmentalism a form of bourgeois snobbery (which it is) and wanted nothing to do with it.




4. Embracing open borders even though it's wildly unpopular in many cases even among minorities (blacks in the USA for example don't like open borders). This is largely because sjws themselves as pointed out earlier often belong to the wealthier classes and don't care about the poor despite of their claims of otherwise.




5. Embracing neo-liberalism. This is perhaps the most hilarious one. Because many socialists are now just spoiled rich white kids whom only care about useless garbage like identity and climate change they are actually totally cool with destructive neo-liberal policies like globalism and support globalist policies such as free trade and the EU. In fact many of these "socialists" aren't even really socialists at all because of this.



6. Refusal to admit foreign cultures can't always coexist with socialism. Take for example Islam which is as anti-socialist as it gets to a point where even some liberal figures like Bill Maher has admitted Islam is dangerous and yet everybody just dismisses this as a right-wing meme. lol ok.


7. Total lack of tolerance for any debate or criticism on the current state of the socialist movement. Literally every single socialist reddit or forum I have found imposes draconian rules about what is or isn't allowed to be discussed and will ban anybody that so much as hints at the idea that the current state of the movement is garbage and that all this sjw nonsense is worthless. I blame this on the spoiled nature of millennials whom were never taught to respect anybody but themselves. That's not even mentioning the extreme level of emotional fragility of these dumb children whom are so mentally weak that they felt the need to invent laughable concepts such as "micro-agressions" and "trigger-warnings". Any meaningful discussion on anything in any socialist space is basically impossible now which means there is zero chance of the movement ever being reformed.

So to summarize:

Pre-millennial socialism:

-Workers are being harmed through wage exploitation
-Capitalism is bad
-People should look past race & religion and unite against the rich
-Creating opportunities for the poor is important




Millennial sjw socialism:

-Rich black people are being harmed through mean tweets
-Capitalism is bad sometimes but ok if I get cheaper Iphones through third world exploitation
-Race is extremely important to our identity and some races are innately evil and oppressive
-Saving the trees is more important than creating jobs or welfare for the poor


So yea, I'm really pissed. Socialism is a valid ideology, but I feel that it's now been completely ruined beyond repair by these brats
There's another religion out there, several as a matter of fact, with names like Libertarianism and Conservatism, Capitalism, etc. Sounds like your in need of a change of camps.

Most of us just go about our lives without putting ourselves into these camps. I like some conservative views, some libertarians views, and some social views.

Don't hang your coat in one camp and you'll find the world much more agreeable to you..
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Old 11-16-2019, 12:46 PM
 
Location: San Jose
2,594 posts, read 1,229,637 times
Reputation: 2590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Open-D View Post
Self-Sabotaging? As I already instructed, it is Socialism that is self-destroying. It is based on assumptions about human nature, that are totally invalid.
How is Socialism self destroying? Explain...

What assumptions about human nature is it based on that make it totally invalid? You are making grandoise claims about socialism and human nature but are not offering any evidence or argument to solidify your statements.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Open-D View Post
You correctly observe that there needs to be competition, which is EXACTLY what capitalism has, in Spades, and socialism, by its very nature, is utterly devoid of. What makes capitalism tick is shared by all players. The fact is that all business aim to, and work towards market domination, which upgrades production, market suitability, quality, low cost etc.
There needs to competition for CAPITALISM to function as its intended. Tell me how is having one company control an entire market any better then having it controlled by the government? At least with the government there is some say on behalf of the citizens. At this point in history, almost every single sector of market is dominated by at least 1 to 3 companies and that is about it. Market domination does not lead to better production, market suitability, quality or low cost. Why would a company put money and labor towards improving their product when they don't need to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Open-D View Post
Capitalism, not socialism, communism or any other ism has elevated the lives of untold billions of people, and it has succeeded admirably wherever it is implemented.
The largest migrations out of poverty in human history occurred unto two communist countries. The USSR and China....so right off the bat your statement is historically inaccurate.
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Old 11-16-2019, 02:35 PM
 
4,337 posts, read 1,534,691 times
Reputation: 2279
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
How is Socialism self destroying? Explain...

What assumptions about human nature is it based on that make it totally invalid? You are making grandoise claims about socialism and human nature but are not offering any evidence or argument to solidify your statements.



There needs to competition for CAPITALISM to function as its intended. Tell me how is having one company control an entire market any better then having it controlled by the government? At least with the government there is some say on behalf of the citizens. At this point in history, almost every single sector of market is dominated by at least 1 to 3 companies and that is about it. Market domination does not lead to better production, market suitability, quality or low cost. Why would a company put money and labor towards improving their product when they don't need to?



The largest migrations out of poverty in human history occurred unto two communist countries. The USSR and China....so right off the bat your statement is historically inaccurate.
Socialism is about distributing wealth, but not creating it
Self-destroying. Happens every time.
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Old 11-16-2019, 02:37 PM
 
7,827 posts, read 3,352,334 times
Reputation: 5141
Quote:
Originally Posted by splattenburgers View Post
First post btw!

A bit of a backstory about myself...

I'm a socialist. I a am not an American and live in Europe. I believe that capitalism is a failed system of economy that is riddled with paradoxes and contradictions and that it's not a sustainable system of economy in the long run. I have educated myself about the failures of capitalism by studying the work of Marx and Engels and I agree with much of what they said.

Unfortunately, I'm extremely nihilistic and blackpilled about the future of socialism...

In the past, socialism use to be a (mostly) scientific ideology that focused on social class and materialism. It rejected for the most part romantic and unscientific concepts like religion, while also calling out corrupt systems like globalism and neo-liberalism. Then somewhere between 1990-2015 something terrible happened....


...millennial sjws grew up and infected the socialist movement

It's almost impossible to describe how much damage these brats have caused the socialist movement. Almost literally everything that socialism use to stand for has now been destroyed. But before you can understand why, it's important to first give a brief overview of what socialism actually is since lots of people have massive misconceptions about socialism.

Basically, the premise of socialism is that the concept of wage labor in a capitalist economy is a form of exploitation since the capitalist can make money of the labor of someone else. So if a capitalist pays a worker 10$ per hour to produce 20$ worth of value per hour and then pockets the remaining 10$ for himself, then that is a form of exploitation since the capitalist gets to profit of labor that he himself was not responsible for. And thus, from the point of view of socialism capitalism is basically theft and should be done away with in favor of a socialist society where workers reap the benefits of the means of production rather than the capitalist whom from the point of view of the exploited workers are merely a parasite class.

In addition to the above, socialism also believes (or USE to believe...more on that later) that concepts like nationalism, religion etc are just trickery that the ruling classes use in order to keep the lower classes divided so that they don't unite against the wealthy.

And that is how it use to be. Until millennial sjws happened

First, let's explain why sjws even exist.

Sjws are basically what happens when you combine spoiled and poor upbringing with narcissism and entitlement mentality. This is very important to remember, because it gives context to the things that they believe and why they believe it, and why their version of "socialism" is so much more different (and worse) compared to earlier generations of socialists.

So what makes this new generation of "socialists" so much worse? Mostly 7 things:


1. Rejection of the class conflict theory in favor of nonsense identity politics. This is largely in part because many sjws are themselves spoiled brats belonging to the wealthier classes and as a result making it all about social class/money would risk making them look stupid. So instead they shift the focus away from money/class over to something else, and in doing so basically defeat the purpose of marxism by implying money doesn't really matter. So according to their garbage belief system a black billionaire is more oppressed than a poor white person for example. This is literally the reverse of what marx believed and in fact is arguably more similar to far-right ideology than marxism.


2. The incorporation of garbage movements like feminism and LGBT nonsense into the socialist movement even though neither of those things have anything to do with socialism or criticism of capitalism. In fact historically most socialist regimes prior to the end of the cold war were actually anti-LGBT and forced traditional marriage values on their populations.


3. Disregard for the welfare of the poor in favor of dogmatic environmentalism that negatively effects the lower classes, just so that they can feel morally superior. By comparison the soviet union considered environmentalism a form of bourgeois snobbery (which it is) and wanted nothing to do with it.




4. Embracing open borders even though it's wildly unpopular in many cases even among minorities (blacks in the USA for example don't like open borders). This is largely because sjws themselves as pointed out earlier often belong to the wealthier classes and don't care about the poor despite of their claims of otherwise.




5. Embracing neo-liberalism. This is perhaps the most hilarious one. Because many socialists are now just spoiled rich white kids whom only care about useless garbage like identity and climate change they are actually totally cool with destructive neo-liberal policies like globalism and support globalist policies such as free trade and the EU. In fact many of these "socialists" aren't even really socialists at all because of this.



6. Refusal to admit foreign cultures can't always coexist with socialism. Take for example Islam which is as anti-socialist as it gets to a point where even some liberal figures like Bill Maher has admitted Islam is dangerous and yet everybody just dismisses this as a right-wing meme. lol ok.


7. Total lack of tolerance for any debate or criticism on the current state of the socialist movement. Literally every single socialist reddit or forum I have found imposes draconian rules about what is or isn't allowed to be discussed and will ban anybody that so much as hints at the idea that the current state of the movement is garbage and that all this sjw nonsense is worthless. I blame this on the spoiled nature of millennials whom were never taught to respect anybody but themselves. That's not even mentioning the extreme level of emotional fragility of these dumb children whom are so mentally weak that they felt the need to invent laughable concepts such as "micro-agressions" and "trigger-warnings". Any meaningful discussion on anything in any socialist space is basically impossible now which means there is zero chance of the movement ever being reformed.

So to summarize:

Pre-millennial socialism:

-Workers are being harmed through wage exploitation
-Capitalism is bad
-People should look past race & religion and unite against the rich
-Creating opportunities for the poor is important




Millennial sjw socialism:

-Rich black people are being harmed through mean tweets
-Capitalism is bad sometimes but ok if I get cheaper Iphones through third world exploitation
-Race is extremely important to our identity and some races are innately evil and oppressive
-Saving the trees is more important than creating jobs or welfare for the poor


So yea, I'm really pissed. Socialism is a valid ideology, but I feel that it's now been completely ruined beyond repair by these brats
North Korea and Cuba still practice socialist economics. I’m sure you could manage to get in one or both. They also restrict free expression, as you seem to desire. Probably your best bet for the equality you desire.
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Old 11-16-2019, 03:15 PM
 
Location: Texas
37,940 posts, read 17,756,167 times
Reputation: 10366
Quote:
Originally Posted by splattenburgers View Post
They really aren't. Sjws have been nothing but destructive towards the socialist movements and have not helped it at all.


And you are bluepilled about capitalism. It only "works" in the west because poverty is kept hidden (or so it use to be) in the third world.
My geography is weak but are these examples of Western countries? Hong Kong, Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, Switzerland, and Ireland. They are all capitalist and are the highest ranking countries as far as economic freedom goes.
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Old 11-16-2019, 03:20 PM
Status: "Astros need a strong spring." (set 6 days ago)
 
Location: Suburban Dallas
52,596 posts, read 47,766,199 times
Reputation: 33689
If millennials and anyone else trying to sell this empty bag called socialism think they have an easy sell, well, then they're not doing it particularly well. You'd have to be extremely stupid to fall for such an idea if you're being pitched this. They'd be better off selling used cars.
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Old 11-16-2019, 03:23 PM
 
Location: Northern Wisconsin
10,379 posts, read 10,857,634 times
Reputation: 18712
Socialism is bad all by itself.
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Old 11-16-2019, 04:41 PM
 
27 posts, read 13,026 times
Reputation: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by augiedogie View Post
Socialism is bad all by itself.

Define socialism for me.
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Old 11-16-2019, 09:30 PM
 
Location: Old Dominion
3,307 posts, read 1,204,655 times
Reputation: 1409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveshiscountry View Post
My geography is weak but are these examples of Western countries? Hong Kong, Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, Switzerland, and Ireland. They are all capitalist and are the highest ranking countries as far as economic freedom goes.
Yes, I think a lot of people would view these countries as capitalist, but they have social safety nets. Look into their social programs and you will find that some are more robust than America.

I don't get why you said your geography is weak. Do you mean the countries are in the Western Hemisphere or they are culturally western? I believe all of the countries you cited are in the eastern hemisphere with the exception of Ireland.
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