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To that the Dems would probably quote King Leonidas from the movie 300: "Pray they're that stupid. Pray we're that lucky."
A vote to dismiss without a trial would be impossibly bad optics if the impeachment effort makes it out of the House.
Not really given that the House nonsense is entirely partisan while the opposition to it is bipartisan. Refusing to dignify it with a trial is the right thing to do for the country though politically the best thing to do would be to have the trial and use it to expose the nonsense for what it is, a partisan coup attempt
Having Trump go down as one of only 4 Presidents to be impeached by the House and tried in the Senate. He’ll carry a stain throughout our history. That’s his punishment.
I'm good with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartacus713
I will ask you again. If Trump truly was implicated by the Mueller report, then why aren't the Democrats currently impeaching Trump based on that?
If you refuse to give a clear and convincing answer again, the reason why will be vividly apparent.
Good lord. Can they help it if Trump came forward and did something even WORSE? Jesus, man. Tell your boy to obey the constitution and get something done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow
Why not call the guy trying to frame you, to answer many questions we already know the answer to.
"The guy"? There are so many witnesses now. Tell me, are you one of the posters that swore they wouldn't watch the hearings? I'd like to know if I'm debating someone who has been paying attention or not.
If President Trump is actually impeached by the House, the Senate will actually be conducting a trial ("High crimes and misdemeanors"). It is virtually inconceivable that Chief Justice Roberts will be willing to sit there and preside over a trial ("High crimes and misdemeanors") that is authorized specifically by the US Constitution without ensuring that the rights provided to US Citizens in the constitution are provided to the President in this venue. Those include the rights to confront their accusers and the right to due process.
Even the Senate "trial" is not a court of law - not even with the Chief Justice presiding. The Chief Justice will simply be there to ensure the rules for the trial that the Senate establishes are adhered to.
So, due process doesn't apply. Neither does the guarantee of the ability to "face your accuser". Now, the Senate may well vote those conditions into the rules, but that all remains to be seen.
Not really given that the House nonsense is entirely partisan while the opposition to it is bipartisan. Refusing to dignify it with a trial is the right thing to do for the country though politically the best thing to do would be to have the trial and use it to expose the nonsense for what it is, a partisan coup attempt
Yes, your position has been well established in this, and other, threads.
Even the Senate "trial" is not a court of law - not even with the Chief Justice presiding. The Chief Justice will simply be there to ensure the rules for the trial that the Senate establishes are adhered to.
So, due process doesn't apply. Neither does the guarantee of the ability to "face your accuser". Now, the Senate may well vote those conditions into the rules, but that all remains to be seen.
The Chief Justice is there to symbolically show that it is the judicial branch working with the legislative branch this giving their actions the credibility to potentially act against the executive.
In reality, there is no decision that Roberts could make that couldn't be overruled by the Senate with a majority vote.
As to the trial rules, it would make sense that they'd go by the spirit of the constitution, thus there would be a right to face your accuser.
Yes, your position has been well established in this, and other, threads.
We'll agree to disagree.
Well it's not so much my position as it is objective reality, but I understand why some would reject that objective reality for partisan reasons... after all it conflicts with the talking points that the DNC issues.
They really won't. There are more people for impeachment than against at this point- although there are still a number of people who have no leaning. And in many districts it is going to be a positive instead of a liability for the Dem. If you look back to the late 90s- Clinton's impeachment was less popular and the Rs still won the Presidency and held the house in the next election. Angering another 4% of voters in Wyoming and Mississippi will not be a deterrent to Dems.
Good luck! When you don't convict, this is what happens......and Clinton was guilty of both charges...
After his impeachment proceedings in 1998 and 1999, Clinton's rating reached its highest point at 73% approval. He finished with a Gallup poll approval rating of 65%, higher than that of every other departing president measured since Harry Truman.
I love that this is supposed to be "scary". The only way this is "scary" is if you presuppose all the rediculous distractionary conspiracies the RS have been throwing at the wall are true. They are not.
If the facts are on your side why would there be fear?
Are Trump, Guilliani, Pompeo, Mulvaney, Perry, and Pence also going to be called? If not, why not?
"Trump under oath" < Word that strike fear into the hearts of Trumpers everywhere.
How does calling Adam Schiff help the President? The problem for the President is not Shifty Schiff or the whistle blower, its Trumps own actions and the people who have and will testify. Republican Senators attacking Schiff a House member during a Trial of the President's actions looks Weak and would NOT be a strong defense of the President's actions.
I don't understand the logic of doing this, it sounds good on a radio show or while some Talking Head on TV yells it out. But just imagine hours and hours of Hounding Schiff on the stand in the Senate on Live Television While Avoiding talking about the Presidents actions. It is not a good look ladies and gentlemen, but do what you want. And you give Schiff a platform on National Television to keep repeating his case against Trump in a Senate hearing.
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