Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-23-2019, 10:29 PM
 
12,883 posts, read 13,936,144 times
Reputation: 18449

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiloh1 View Post
The article pointed out that in even a scientific context the word is used not in an arbitrary way, as you noted in accusation of my position, but in exactly the way in which I described. It's a fact and these editors and scientists are just fine "abusing" this word despite lay people who have political agendas who disagree thus exactly proving my point. Who are you to say they can or cannot - the fact is they do and it is not a violation of language or usage - both arguments you made.
I never said you said it could be arbitrary - just that it could be. Because a word like "assign" can mean the potential is there for arbitrariness. I don't think that one article or study proves anything about word usage.

Do ALL scientists or doctors say that sex is assigned? Or just the ones you have found/cited? You cannot possibly find proof that ALL doctors and researchers everywhere would agree that sex is "assigned." I have a feeling they would also debate amongst themselves, the same way they debate whether it is right to give hormones or hormone blockers to a child who says he or she is trans. I don't really care what those researchers said - years ago, people also thought the Earth was flat. *shrug* They can say what they want, characterize it how they want, and I can think they are using the wrong word based on its definitions and connotations - you do not have to convince me that you or they are right. It's not that serious. Multiple people on this thread have questioned use of the phrase "assigned sex [or even gender] at birth" due to the typical usage of the word "assign." You are the only one defending it so hard.

Why or how do I have a political agenda? Or anyone else? Are you now saying that disagreeing that sex can be assigned or thinking modern trans ideology has gone too far is a "political agenda"? Why is it so us vs. them?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-23-2019, 10:56 PM
2K5Gx2km
 
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
I never said you said it could be arbitrary - just that it could be. Because a word like "assign" can mean the potential is there for arbitrariness. I don't think that one article or study proves anything about word usage.
Have I or anyone in here argued for such a usage? If not why are you injecting it into the conversation and post quoting me? Do you really think that anyone on here was suggesting that a Dr. just up and says that it can be a boy or a girl for no reason?

The article proves that the word is used in relation to sex determination after observing certain things. How can it not prove usage when it used it? You do understand the importance in understanding a language by how words are used in that language by its speakers. And this is not just a lay usage it is in a scientific article about the very things we are discussing. And it accords with the definition of assign I gave.

Quote:
Do ALL scientists or doctors say that sex is assigned? Or just the ones you have found/cited? You cannot possibly find proof that ALL doctors and researchers everywhere would agree that sex is "assigned."
Why would I need to do any such thing - again why are you even mentioning this? How is this my burden, did I say ALL, where did I say that I could find that proof, even if I can't how does that refute my point that the word assign is used in such a way even by scientists? This is the kind rabbit trail that is not productive. You keep implying things like this.

Quote:
I have a feeling they would also debate amongst themselves, the same way they debate whether it is right to give hormones or hormone blockers to a child who says he or she is trans. I don't really care what those researchers said - years ago, people also thought the Earth was flat. *shrug* They can say what they want, characterize it how they want, and I can think they are using the wrong word based on its definitions and connotations - you do not have to convince me that you or they are right. It's not that serious. Multiple people on this thread have questioned use of the phrase "assigned sex [or even gender] at birth" due to the typical usage of the word "assign." You are the only one defending it so hard.
My understanding is that the problem was that after 'observing' the child to be male or female there was and expectation that their social/mental gender follows necessarily and there would be no discord between the two. As such people did not want Doctors or anyone to assign sex or gender. But that facts are that they did and the word assign to describe this, after the Dr. observed their genitalia, is a perfectly normal usage of the word.

Quote:
Why or how do I have a political agenda? Or anyone else? Are you now saying that disagreeing that sex can be assigned or thinking modern trans ideology has gone too far is a "political agenda"? Why is it so us vs. them?
Because you made some political remarks.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-23-2019, 11:09 PM
2K5Gx2km
 
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aussiehoff View Post
Do you think members of the SJW class and members of the LGBTIQA+ cohort wouldn't care if the inappropriate use of the word assign was ended? Look we all know the answer to that, and at the end of the day, that is the entire point.

As you now agree it has been used in an effort of social just activism, not because it is the proper and accepted definition of the word.

It not so much the definition or it connotations but what the labeling practice itself and its expectations that both gender and sex align and that they will be socialized as such. Many of them want it ended because it implies that sex and gender will always align. So they would rather that they not assign at all. The term illustrates that the individual’s sex (and subsequently gender in early life) was assigned without involving the person whose sex was being assigned.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-23-2019, 11:30 PM
2K5Gx2km
 
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aussiehoff View Post
As you now agree it has been used in an effort of social just activism, not because it is the proper and accepted definition of the word.
I agree that it is used by these groups. But that does not mean that I agreed that it is not the proper and accepted definition of the word. Adding the last part is not what I said. But why this is even now the discussion is ridiculous since there was no argument about what group was or was not using it or for what purposes.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-24-2019, 07:31 AM
 
Location: Texas Hill Country
23,658 posts, read 13,854,634 times
Reputation: 18834
Oh, I don't know. Maybe to have the right words to please or anger someone as one decides......depending on who I am talking to, it is the Persian or Arabian Gulf, it is the Yom Kippur or the Ramadan War.



As far as cisgender goes, hear it from time to time in some dance circles and of course, on FB.



But.......I find that unless one is exactly in definition to those who wish to push these political points, then if one feels like they are part of it, they are shouted down (or worse) that they aren't and one ought to learn to march to the beat of their own drummer.


Personally, I take a lesson from one of my cats regarding a dog in the house.......


"Okay, so you're a dog."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-24-2019, 09:52 AM
 
12,883 posts, read 13,936,144 times
Reputation: 18449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiloh1 View Post
Have I or anyone in here argued for such a usage? If not why are you injecting it into the conversation and post quoting me? Do you really think that anyone on here was suggesting that a Dr. just up and says that it can be a boy or a girl for no reason?

The article proves that the word is used in relation to sex determination after observing certain things. How can it not prove usage when it used it? You do understand the importance in understanding a language by how words are used in that language by its speakers. And this is not just a lay usage it is in a scientific article about the very things we are discussing. And it accords with the definition of assign I gave.

Why would I need to do any such thing - again why are you even mentioning this? How is this my burden, did I say ALL, where did I say that I could find that proof, even if I can't how does that refute my point that the word assign is used in such a way even by scientists? This is the kind rabbit trail that is not productive. You keep implying things like this.

My understanding is that the problem was that after 'observing' the child to be male or female there was and expectation that their social/mental gender follows necessarily and there would be no discord between the two. As such people did not want Doctors or anyone to assign sex or gender. But that facts are that they did and the word assign to describe this, after the Dr. observed their genitalia, is a perfectly normal usage of the word.

Because you made some political remarks.
Wow, you really won't give up.

I don't know why you are taking this so personally and making it your mission to prove to people that it is the proper usage of the phrase - based on wikipedia and one study about some fish, no less. You obviously aren't changing minds here. This is just going in circles.

I'm out. I'm sure you'll see this as a win for yourself or me not being able to respond to your points, but this is beyond ridiculous, lmao.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-24-2019, 10:02 AM
 
5,428 posts, read 4,433,360 times
Reputation: 7263
Cisgendered is a silly word. It's a regular heterosexual person. We do not need a word for that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-24-2019, 10:42 AM
 
Location: New York Area
34,755 posts, read 16,767,477 times
Reputation: 29893
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ312 View Post
Cisgendered is a silly word. It's a regular heterosexual person. We do not need a word for that.
In this progressive free-flow gender world there is though.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-24-2019, 10:53 PM
 
Location: Brackenwood
9,944 posts, read 5,618,641 times
Reputation: 22086
We can't even agree on basic, fundamental, readily observable and verifiable facts any more, never mind have any consensus on issues of nuance... and then the people who pushed us to this point can't understand why this country elected as president someone who promised to come in and break everything.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-25-2019, 04:09 AM
 
Location: New York Area
34,755 posts, read 16,767,477 times
Reputation: 29893
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitey View Post
We can't even agree on basic, fundamental, readily observable and verifiable facts any more, never mind have any consensus on issues of nuance... and then the people who pushed us to this point can't understand why this country elected as president someone who promised to come in and break everything.
True. The "breaking" was done by others. There was no need to "break" up gender assumptions. It was all for the sake of "hope and change." Nothing good came of it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:25 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top