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Old 11-27-2019, 11:51 AM
 
45,542 posts, read 27,146,343 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TEPLimey View Post
I would be far more receptive to the argument concerning lack of first-hand information if the Trump Administration's refusal to comply with Congressional subpoenas wasn't the reason for the lack of first-hand information. Trump can hardly complain about hearsay evidence while stonewalling any attempt to get relevant documents that could corroborate (or disprove) the given testimony. His obstruction in this regard in and of itself is an impeachable offense.
He doesn't have to do anything. He is not breaking any laws by not responding to this nonsense.

He would be in court 365 days a year if he had to respond to everything that radical liberals dream up.
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Old 11-27-2019, 12:01 PM
 
8,494 posts, read 3,334,242 times
Reputation: 6991
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
He doesn't have to do anything. He is not breaking any laws by not responding to this nonsense.

He would be in court 365 days a year if he had to respond to everything that radical liberals dream up.
No one to my knowledge is asking that Trump himself appear. Rather officials paid with US taxpayer dollars within the Trump Administration have been requested by Congress to explain themselves. And the President's personal attorney - who is not a US official - has according to public testimony been acting in way that negatively impacts US foreign policy also will not appear to explain himself. The Giuliani excuse that he is only acting to benefit Trump - he calls it 'defending' - is itself problematic.

It is that blurring of lines that led to what Bolton called "Rudy's drug deal" with Giuliani a "hand grenade."

This certainly appears problematic with the question then becoming is it impeachable to the extent that it was directed by Trump or with his knowledge.
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Old 11-27-2019, 12:03 PM
 
9,254 posts, read 3,582,161 times
Reputation: 4852
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
He doesn't have to do anything. He is not breaking any laws by not responding to this nonsense.

He would be in court 365 days a year if he had to respond to everything that radical liberals dream up.
The idea that he can legally ignore a Congressional subpoena without breaking the law is a dubious one at best. More to the point, however, is that Trump is not in a position to complain about absence of direct evidence when he is the one overtly causing direct evidence to be absent.
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Old 11-27-2019, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Texas
2,000 posts, read 760,052 times
Reputation: 2552
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEPLimey View Post
His obstruction in this regard in and of itself is an impeachable offense.
I’m curious, did you also feel Obama should have been impeached by the Republicans over the fast and furious obstruction, or are you selective in your application of the law?
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Old 11-27-2019, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
25,576 posts, read 56,451,817 times
Reputation: 23368
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToyVW55 View Post
As I said, I was part of the planning and casework process. I know all about it. I work foreign aid distribution on an annual basis. Whatever you want to believe, this was HIGHLY irregular.

It's really quite impressive how you homed in on the word "beforehand" to spin that the funds were released early. Please. We all know that under normal circumstances, funds are released for use on October 1st of any fiscal year for the following 30 September obligation.

Ask any government agency how they'd do with getting stuff on contract if they had 3 weeks remaining in the fiscal year to do their business.
This is exactly what Laura Cooper, Deputy Asst. Defense Secretary for Ukraine, testified to on the last day of the hearings:

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c48333...ip-ukraine-aid

Essentially, because of the delay, there was not enough time to obligate all of the foreign aid for Ukraine. It took an act of Congress to allow the remaining funds to be spent in the following fiscal year.
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Old 11-27-2019, 12:10 PM
 
9,254 posts, read 3,582,161 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenBouy View Post
I’m curious, did you also feel Obama should have been impeached by the Republicans over the fast and furious obstruction, or are you selective in your application of the law?
As far as I recall, there was a fight over what would be produced initially, but ultimately only a select set of documents over which there was a claim of Executive Privilege that were withheld. Personally I think Executive Privilege claims are largely bunk and that Holder should have been impeached, but the situation here is a far more broad blockage of Congressional subpoenas because they are withholding documents that are not even arguably covered by Executive Privilege.
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Old 11-27-2019, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
25,576 posts, read 56,451,817 times
Reputation: 23368
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenBouy View Post
I’m curious, did you also feel Obama should have been impeached by the Republicans over the fast and furious obstruction, or are you selective in your application of the law?
Did Obama do this in order to win an upcoming election? Or destroy a political opponent?

The impeachment is about Trump's abuse of power in an attempt to extort a political favor from a foreign country which would benefit Trump personally. Period.

Now, he and his lackeys are stumbling all over themselves - AFTER THE FACT - trying to manufacture a believable story.
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Old 11-27-2019, 12:19 PM
 
45,542 posts, read 27,146,343 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariadne22 View Post
Did Obama do this in order to win an upcoming election? Or destroy a political opponent?

The impeachment is about Trump's abuse of power in an attempt to extort a political favor which would benefit Trump personally. Period.
C'mon... McCain and Romney... that was almost a self check situation. Obama had it easy.

Trump did not tell the Bidens to do what they did with Burisma. They destroyed themselves.

Look - if Trump wanted to, he could have hoped Biden would win the Dem primary so that the Burisma stuff could be used to nuke Biden in the end.
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Old 11-27-2019, 12:21 PM
 
5,051 posts, read 3,576,552 times
Reputation: 6512
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
C'mon... McCain and Romney... that was almost a self check situation. Obama had it easy.

Trump did not tell the Bidens to do what they did with Burisma. They destroyed themselves.

Look - if Trump wanted to, he could have hoped Biden would win the Dem primary so that the Burisma stuff could be used to nuke Biden in the end.

That is what he tried to do except those pesky government bureaucrats got in the way !
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Old 11-27-2019, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
25,576 posts, read 56,451,817 times
Reputation: 23368
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
He doesn't have to do anything. He is not breaking any laws by not responding to this nonsense.

He would be in court 365 days a year if he had to respond to everything that radical liberals dream up.
Extortion and abuse of power are not nonsense. There is nothing to dream up because the evidence is there for all to see. Unless your position is that every witness is a liar? And, no, they weren't hearing these things third-hand - much as the fact-deniers would wish it to be so. Easy for the party parrots to cry "hearsay" - to conflate, obfuscate, and muddy the waters - and make everyone prove, yet again, that the testimony we've already heard is factual. Stall, delay, change the subject, make false accusations - don't allow witnesses to testify and then say there's nothing there. If it looks, walks and quacks like a duck - it's a duck.
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