A black political and social thread for those throughout the diaspora (radical, cost)

[dsjj251]

Originally Posted by pandorafan5687

If you have any links or any info that would debunk MovementGuy, please feel free to share. I'd be interested in knowing your take and what you know about his claims.

I'm not sure if you are joking or not.

His initial claim was that DeRay was an agent . He is making the affirmative and it is his job to prove it. So far he has posted nothing to support that claim.

If you are genuinely asking me to refute his argument, then there are 2 problems .

1. You actually take his post seriously , and even further , are allowing him to skate by without ever proving his point

2. Asking me to prove a negative ( fine proof something doesn't exist )

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by pandorafan5687

I want to dive a bit more into the issue of illegal aliens or undocumented immigrants. Do you think it has a negative effect on the black community? Would you say it has any more of an effect on the black community than any other social issues that have plagued black communities for decades? Would you say that it's a big problem in your metropolitan area of residence?

What can be done to provide a better control on immigration? OBVIOUSLY, we cannot house every immigrant that may try to come and frankly SOME of them have no business here. OTOH, painting them all with one broad brush isn't the answer either (and lets face it, we have citizens who reek more havoc than most undocumented immigrants ever have). How can we see that the non violent offenders are AT LEAST in the process of obtaining proper resident status?

Do you think that the wall is effective or will be effective?

There is a significant amount of Asians who are here as undocumented residents. How do you think that they manage to stay under the radar?

How about Illegal immigrants from other parts of the world (e.g. Russia and other eastern European nations, the West Indies, etc)? How are they keeping such a low profile?



Let's talk!

I don't think illegal immigrants have any benefit to the Black population. I don't think it will have any more ill effect that other problems going on in the Black population. I will say this. Once the illegals are gone, Black Americans will still be piled down to the bottom. Illegals would create more competition. On the other hand, when there is plenty, Blacks are still the last to benefit. When the economy goes up, Blacks are the last to benefit. Blacks have long dealt with being last hired and first fired.

The wall isn't as effective as one might thing. And it's going to be hard building it. This would require some eminent domain situations. I also don't think it should be necessary. We have immigration laws. Enforce the laws we have and enforce them rigorously, and a wall won't be necessary. It doesn't cost much to do that.

What makes it easy for illegals from Eastern Europe and the West Indies to keep a low profile is that they don't look that much different from what many think of as Americans. Most would think "that's a white man" or "that's a black man".

[pandorafan5687]

Originally Posted by dsjj251

I'm not sure if you are joking or not.

His initial claim was that DeRay was an agent . He is making the affirmative and it is his job to prove it. So far he has posted nothing to support that claim.

If you are genuinely asking me to refute his argument, then there are 2 problems .

1. You actually take his post seriously , and even further , are allowing him to skate by without ever proving his point

2. Asking me to prove a negative ( fine proof something doesn't exist )

I’m a sociologist. Discussions like this interest me. He’s saying his peace so it’s only fair to ask you to state yours.

[pandorafan5687]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

I don't think illegal immigrants have any benefit to the Black population. I don't think it will have any more ill effect that other problems going on in the Black population. I will say this. Once the illegals are gone, Black Americans will still be piled down to the bottom. Illegals would create more competition. On the other hand, when there is plenty, Blacks are still the last to benefit. When the economy goes up, Blacks are the last to benefit. Blacks have long dealt with being last hired and first fired.

The wall isn't as effective as one might thing. And it's going to be hard building it. This would require some eminent domain situations. I also don't think it should be necessary. We have immigration laws. Enforce the laws we have and enforce them rigorously, and a wall won't be necessary. It doesn't cost much to do that.

What makes it easy for illegals from Eastern Europe and the West Indies to keep a low profile is that they don't look that much different from what many think of as Americans. Most would think "that's a white man" or "that's a black man".

I would argue that if one really wants to see a larger drop in illegal immigrants then they need to have the same level of contempt for employers who knowingly hire illegals for cheap/free labor. If companies would stop hiring them, there would not be as much of an incentive for them to seek refuge in the states. Not to mention, many of the same problems that they are fleeing from.....they often encounter upon their arrival here.

[dsjj251]

Originally Posted by pandorafan5687

I’m a sociologist. Discussions like this interest me. He’s saying his peace so it’s only fair to ask you to state yours.

I can't believe I'm taking the time to respond to this , but ok .

You are asking me to prove a negative. No sociologist or psychologist would ever support those lengthy mental gymnastics unless they were just bored and toying with people

Further more, saying your piece is one thing. Proving it is another . He never proved his point. None of his links from WikiLeaks actually makes the claims he doesn't.

Do you genuinely not understand the difference between what he claims vs what his sources actually say ? Or are you just bored and wanting to see the outcome of this discussion ?

[pandorafan5687]

Originally Posted by dsjj251

I can't believe I'm taking the time to respond to this , but ok .

You are asking me to prove a negative. No sociologist or psychologist would ever support those lengthy mental gymnastics unless they were just bored and toying with people

Further more, saying your piece is one thing. Proving it is another . He never proved his point. None of his links from WikiLeaks actually makes the claims he doesn't.

Do you genuinely not understand the difference between what he claims vs what his sources actually say ? Or are you just bored and wanting to see the outcome of this discussion ?

Frankly, I'm just trying to go on to something else, but my request was genuine. IF you actually knew anything contrary to what he was claiming, I would have been interested in what you knew.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by pandorafan5687

I would argue that if one really wants to see a larger drop in illegal immigrants then they need to have the same level of contempt for employers who knowingly hire illegals for cheap/free labor. If companies would stop hiring them, there would not be as much of an incentive for them to seek refuge in the states. Not to mention, many of the same problems that they are fleeing from.....they often encounter upon their arrival here.

And those employers hiring illegals is part of what failing to enforce the law results in. Employers aren't suppose to hire illegals. When employers are forbidden to hire illegals, and get punished severely for it, then maybe those employers will think twice. If we start going after the boss' freedom and wallets, then maybe said persons will think twice. If companies are forced to stop hiring illegals, then illegals won't have much of an incentive to come to America.

A wall isn't needed. This is just Trump posturing to his base.

[dsjj251]

Originally Posted by pandorafan5687

Frankly, I'm just trying to go on to something else, but my request was genuine. IF you actually knew anything contrary to what he was claiming, I would have been interested in what you knew.

Again. He hasn't supported the claims he made in the first place .

Do you genuinely not understand that ?

[pandorafan5687]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

And those employers hiring illegals is part of what failing to enforce the law results in. Employers aren't suppose to hire illegals. When employers are forbidden to hire illegals, and get punished severely for it, then maybe those employers will think twice. If we start going after the boss' freedom and wallets, then maybe said persons will think twice. If companies are forced to stop hiring illegals, then illegals won't have much of an incentive to come to America.

A wall isn't needed. This is just Trump posturing to his base.

At the end of the day, illegal immigrants have not done anything that white America has not allowed. They hire them as maids, grass cutters, etc. They use them to build their houses and do the custodial work at their businesses. Like I said, we obviously cannot house all immigrants, but I think that we are too quick to be made at the immigrants but we don't show the same level of contempt for the people who have allowed it (and it's not just democrats or liberals like some would make you believe).

Where's that same level of contempt for Russian, Ukranian, Chinese, and Korean undocumented folks? If one is going to call out illegal immigration, they need to call it all out.

What I WILL say is this though, what's currently going on with Guatemalans, Hondurans, and El Salvadorians is the reality check is coming in. The realization that these white supremacists (not all white people, and not even all white conservatives) that Latin Americans (especially mestizos) were riding for never liked them. They simply TOLERATED them as long as they were crapping on black people.

That being said, I do think the way that the deportations are being handled needs to be reviewed. Everyone is in limbo right now and no one really knows where each other is. As of 2018, we still have a little over 2000 children in limbo. DHHS is trying to resolve this, but this process was not well thought out when it was executed.

[pandorafan5687]

Originally Posted by dsjj251

Again. He hasn't supported the claims he made in the first place .

Do you genuinely not understand that ?

Really? Don't do that. No need to be a smartass. I really wanted to know if you knew anything. It was an honest question. If you don't then, okay. Let's go on to the next topic.