Drivers waiting in hour-long queues to recharge batteries: "No more long trips on Tesla." (9/11, California)
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You don't think the batteries in the EV, or the mechanical components that make up the generator, motor and drive train survived 540,000 miles without any maintenance issues?
Even the hybrid, absent government force, will remain a niche product until it offers across the board improvements over straight ICE vehicles. Which it doesn't.
Most of my comparison calcs using average gas prices and mileage requirements have hybrids taking 10-15 years to pay for themselves over the same model in straight ICE configuration. And that doesn't include the cost of maintaining/replacing the hybrid battery. And given the R&D that many auto makers are putting into improving internal combustion across the board (HP, mileage, emissions, etc), that payback gets even longer.
Not surprisingly, the percentage of the US fleet taken by hybrids is less than 2% and hasn't gone much past 3% in the 20 years they've been around. As IC engines improve, even higher gas prices don't move that market share much YOY.
This goes to the point I keep making about adoption happening wide scale only when noticeable, measurable improvements in value and quality happen across the board for the average user. The EV and the hybrid simply do not provide that improvement over the ICE vehicle. So the niche is where they will remain until that improvement occurs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur
What specific improvements would satisfy you?
I already listed examples of the kind of tangible improvements over ICE that would result in EV being a properly disruptive and destructive technology, but I'll repeat:
Ranges of 2-3x what even a diesel ICE could pull off.
Substantially lower TCO.
Substantially better performance vs ICE in the same vehicle class
And it can't just be one or another, it needs to be across the board. That's how a new technology displaces an older one. Look at any industry, product, service, etc that has gone through proper disruption and destruction, and the technology that did the disruption/destruction was a VAST improvement in almost every measurable way over whatever it displaced/destroyed.
You keep trying to sell the concept of vehicles that are more expensive and more difficult to maintain (parts, labor, cost) to some degree based on being "mostly equal" to existing tech and having a higher virtue signaling score. That is a niche product, good sir. It won't get widespread adoption by the market until it offers VAST improvement over the tech that currently exists. It offers nothing close currently, therefore, it remains in the niche.
Last edited by Volobjectitarian; 12-03-2019 at 09:48 AM..
Bearings still need grease. So do racks and pinions. So do suspensions. Your EV ride is going to pretty teeth rattling and performance degraded without them. Especially on roads where there's no more asphalt (from decommissioned oil refineries) to resurface with.
You going to use your food topsoil to grow plant-based lubricants? Are they moisture and heat resistant? You're going to be standing in more lines than the Soviets did.
No one seriously says that our use of fossil fuel and lubricants will be completely eliminated. It is not an all-or-nothing proposition. Even if the world agreed to reduce carbon emissions to halt and partially reverse climate change, it is not necessary to completely eliminate fossil fuel use.
What time period do you live in? Modern cars have sealed parts and do not require regular grease jobs.
You still need replacement parts when you have to torch the shocks off your vehicle when it gets bouncy. Parts are still delivered to factories that make them.
Where do you think those products come from?
Do you choose to not clean and repack a bearing when you resurface a brake disk? What do you think that stuff is?
You guys are responding to an infowars article, which means that you can guarantee that they are misleading, cherrypicking or witholding information (or all of the above plus of course the making it up out of thin air options. ).
These are the same people that spoke of the DC earthquake as a nuclear test, a power plant in Iowa had a nuclear meltdown and of course all that Fukushima radiation that would wreak havoc on the west coast...oh and the pizza parlor basement that doesn't exist.
Responding to an infowars post is like seeing a stray dog that has rolled in poop and then deciding to pet it.
No one seriously says that our use of fossil fuel and lubricants will be completely eliminated. It is not an all-or-nothing proposition. Even if the world agreed to reduce carbon emissions to halt and partially reverse climate change, it is not necessary to completely eliminate fossil fuel use.
That's a lot of asphalt. Where do you send the unused fuel layers higher up in the catalytic cracker? Into orbit on one of Musk's rockets?
These are the same people that spoke of the DC earthquake as a nuclear test, a power plant in Iowa had a nuclear meltdown and of course all that Fukushima radiation that would wreak havoc on the west coast...oh and the pizza parlor basement that doesn't exist.
None of which Infowars or Alex Jones ever said.
You must not have any respect either for its guests like William Binney, Cynthia McKinney, Richard M. Stallman, Scott Adams, (even Noam Chomsky once), etc., 'Mathguy.'
Are you denying this topic? That there were these car lines in Kettleman City? Deny it if you want; you just come off as uninformed.
It's really hard to figure out a niche where they really make sense. Due to range limitations, and the small, uncomfortable size, they are typically relegated to short trips around urban/suburban areas. But if you only drive say 30 miles a day, comparable-sized gas cars will do that on less than a gallon of fuel a day. So...is it really worth the extra up-front cost, charging hassles and range limitations to save $2.50 a day (not counting electric costs, so actually less)? Many Americans live in rental property; it's not exactly reasonable to expect landlords to absorb the cost of installing charging stations for all their tenants. And of course most people are going to charge at night when they get home from work. These are times when the sun is down, meaning you're not charging off solar. You're charging off fossil, fission or hydro-take your pick. Even the wind tends to die down at night.
We taxpayers pay $1,875 for every Volt that a person purchases, and I know that GM receives many other federal subsides and tax cuts related to EVs. I know taxpayers are footing quite a bit of the bill for the Volt car purchase.
If you drive around Chicago neighborhoods, every scrape of street has a car parked on it. We would need to install charging stations along every street. Poor neighborhoods would use taxpayer money, because it would be "unfair" that only above average income households were the only people with at home charging stations.
Clinging to the notion that we will transition to an all electric car future, is just stupid. The EV is only ever going to be a niche market. If and when the federal government stops subsidizing EVs they will cease to be anything but a way for the very wealthy to virtue signal how much better they are than you or I.
Hybrids do away with trillions in new infrastructure costs that would only be paid to facilitate electric cars.
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