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It does not compare to what I have mentioned in this thread. It is not the same. It may compare to SOME cases of indentured servitude. You seem to think that anything labeled 'indentured servant' had some absolute consistency through time. It did not!
In what ways is it different?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiloh1
Many slaves got freedom - did that negate them being slaves? No! Again, being a slave does not necessitate lifetime service.
What percentage of slaves in the Americas (or just the US, even) were freed? Prior to abolition, of course.
12-10-2019, 01:17 PM
2K5Gx2km
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frostnip
In what ways is it different?
Well, if you read my posts on here it should be clear. Being kidnapped is different than being tried for crimes. Being a prisoner of war, one that involves injustices, is different than being tried justly for actual crimes. Both types were sent off to the new colony an in many cases forced into agreements, an example of which I also cited. Many of the 'convicts' were youth targeted for petty crimes that were caused directly and indirectly upon them via policies of corrupt leaders and governments. All of this is different than the modern prison labor. Many of them were transported to the colony without indentures and it was problem.
Quote:
What percentage of slaves in the Americas (or just the US, even) were freed? Prior to abolition, of course.
Good question, not exactly sure but it was very low compared to those that were not but in the early colonial period it was much more common than during the 18th and 19th centuries.
Well, if you read my posts on here it should be clear. Being kidnapped is different than being tried for crimes. Being a prisoner of war, one that involves injustices, is different than being tried justly for actual crimes. Both types were sent off to the new colony an in many cases forced into agreements, an example of which I also cited. Many of the 'convicts' were youth targeted for petty crimes that were caused directly and indirectly upon them via policies of corrupt leaders and governments. All of this is different than the modern prison labor. Many of them were transported to the colony without indentures and it was problem.
Come now. The US has an incredibly high percentage of its population imprisoned compared to other first world countries. "Many of the 'convicts' were youth targeted for petty crimes that were caused directly and indirectly upon them via policies of corrupt leaders and governments" is true now, too. And "forced into agreements"? That's true now, too. The majority of all criminal cases, and the vast majority of those where the defendant has a public defender, do not get a trial - they're bargained out between the public defender and the DA, and it's quite ordinary for people to agree to a plea regardless of guilt or innocence, because they're afraid of the quality of the defense they'd have if it comes to a real trial, given how incredibly overworked public defenders are, or because a plea can sometimes have them out in less time than a trial would either way, given how slowly the court system works in some areas.
12-11-2019, 12:29 AM
2K5Gx2km
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frostnip
Come now. The US has an incredibly high percentage of its population imprisoned compared to other first world countries. "Many of the 'convicts' were youth targeted for petty crimes that were caused directly and indirectly upon them via policies of corrupt leaders and governments" is true now, too. And "forced into agreements"? That's true now, too. The majority of all criminal cases, and the vast majority of those where the defendant has a public defender, do not get a trial - they're bargained out between the public defender and the DA, and it's quite ordinary for people to agree to a plea regardless of guilt or innocence, because they're afraid of the quality of the defense they'd have if it comes to a real trial, given how incredibly overworked public defenders are, or because a plea can sometimes have them out in less time than a trial would either way, given how slowly the court system works in some areas.
These are good points, and for those who fall under such circumstance of course.
Two points though: 1) the intent to incarcerate is not in order to get free labor and 2) there is a lot more steps in order to do so which is unlike that of directly enslaving and slapping a document to their name. But given the result of unjust incarceration where one is put work yes it is a from/type of slavery.
The cases I'm citing are types of slavery far different from this situation you described. The 'targeting' as you say is quite different. But your examples are a type of slavery.
Why are the early white slaves ignored in the discussion of America's first slaves?
Barring a debate on the definition of slavery vs indentured servant, granting no such nuances were in view in 1619, given how these early transports were treated it is my view that it was slavery. Granted there are different types of slavery with varying degrees of contexts.
With that in mind given this is the 400th year since the first slaves landed in Virginia and all focus seems to be on them being the '20 and odd negros' from Angola why did historians or anyone for that matter not seem to mention the fact that prior to this nearly 100 English youths were kidnapped and sent to Virginia in early 1619 prior to these Angolans?
Is it because of modern politics, ignorance, the nuanced categorization of 'slave' and 'indentured servant', the plight of Africans being more recent and more lasting, or a combination of all these factors?
"Barring a debate on the definition of slavery vs indentured servant," because you don't want to ACCEPT MOST came as Indentured Servants first and VOLUNTEERED to do so. A slave had NO CHOICE.
Because in 2019, everything still revolves around skin color for the regressive left. They refuse to see people as people. Everyone must be broken down into categories based in race, religion, gender, so they can be easily divided and pitted against one another.
They apply their racist blinders to everything, including history. They go back hundreds of years to point out examples of persecution of African Americans, yet they do not see that they are the one's dragging out the racial division in our society. The regressive left is standing in the way of progress, mostly for political reasons, and it's unethical and wrong.
By the way, they also ignore the many other examples of whites being enslaved throughout history and they ignore the Native Americans who were captured and used as slaves. They also ignore that the slaves were being sold off as a commodity by African war lords. They also ignore countries like Brazil that maintained the practice of slavery a few decades after the USA, and the fact that they had far more slaves.
It is a fact that slavery was a common practice in the new world, and there is nothing we can do to go back and change that. The best we can do is learn how to live in peace today, learn from our history (not just the history that is useful for the politicians), and move on.
"Because in 2019, everything still revolves around skin color for the regressive left."
Today MLK's words are only that , words, " I have a dream (Yeah) [applause] that my four little children (Well) will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. (My Lord) I have a dream today."
"Because in 2019, everything still revolves around skin color for the regressive left."
Today MLK's words are only that , words, " I have a dream (Yeah) [applause] that my four little children (Well) will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. (My Lord) I have a dream today."
Revisit these thoughts on Confederate Memorial Day:
Quote:
Confederate Memorial Day is a statutory holiday in Alabama and Georgia on the fourth Monday in April.[23][24] In Mississippi it is observed on the last Monday in April.[23][25] In South Carolina it is a legal holiday, observed on May 10.[26] In Texas it is called Confederate Heroes Day and held on January 19 each year. In Tennessee, Confederate Decoration Day is celebrated on June 3, the birthday of Jefferson Davis.[6]
"Barring a debate on the definition of slavery vs indentured servant," because you don't want to ACCEPT MOST came as Indentured Servants first and VOLUNTEERED to do so. A slave had NO CHOICE.
No, I already accept that MOST did so. So there goes that strawman. I'm talking about the early period of colonialism and the discussion of who were the first slaves and why when referencing them we forget about these white slaves. And since you just agreed with me that a slave had NO CHOICE then the examples I gave were white slaves.
And I'll have to say it again this is not a pissing contest about numbers or suffering.
Last edited by 2K5Gx2km; 12-11-2019 at 10:07 AM..
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