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Old 12-24-2019, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Suburbia
8,826 posts, read 15,317,133 times
Reputation: 4533

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBob96 View Post
Because you keep harping on what you think the Framers intended or didn't intend.

Any Supreme Court decisions are irrelevant when discussing the Framer's intentions.

It's only relevant when you're discussing the opinions of the Supreme Court.

The only thing that's relevant when trying to determine the intentions of the Framers is the actual words and actions of the Framers.
The point I’m trying to make is that we have limitations. We have for a long time.
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Old 12-24-2019, 08:31 AM
 
Location: Suburbia
8,826 posts, read 15,317,133 times
Reputation: 4533
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeerleader View Post
Correct on the first, not so much on the second. We are talking about a state enacting gun control. The first limitations on that action would be the state's own constitution and the treatment of the right under state law.

The federal 2nd Amendment is secondary in this circumstance and its guidance is not decisive. Since SCOTUS applied the 2nd to the states under the 14th Amendment in 2010, the enforcement of the 2nd against state law has been in suspended animation.

While SCOTUS in Heller did say that the right secured by the 2nd is not unlimited that doesn't mean the powers of government to impact the RKBA are limitless.

Heller warns modern judges and legislators against constant reassessing of the value of the right to arms in modern society:

"The very enumeration of the right takes out of the hands of government—even the Third Branch of Government—the power to decide on a case-by-case basis whether the right is really worth insisting upon. A constitutional guarantee subject to future judges’ assessments of its usefulness is no constitutional guarantee at all. Constitutional rights are enshrined with the scope they were understood to have when the people adopted them, whether or not future legislatures or (yes) even future judges think that scope too broad."

And Heller doubles down on that theme . . . and this can only be taken as SCOTUS speaking directly to legislatures and their claimed power to dictate from on-high to the people what arms they are allowed to possess and use:
". . . the enshrinement of constitutional rights necessarily takes certain policy choices off the table."

I'm certain the Virginia Democrats will test the limits of state and federal rights protection. We will see how the courts will address this . . . If a civil war doesn't break out first.


.
I don’t disagree if we are looking specifically at current bills. They may well be overstepping.
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Old 12-24-2019, 08:47 AM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
18,454 posts, read 7,086,044 times
Reputation: 11699
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgbwc View Post
The point I’m trying to make is that we have limitations. We have for a long time.



Congratulations Captain Obvious.

That doesn't mean that they are Constitutional according to the intentions of the Framers and the 2nd amendment.
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Old 12-24-2019, 08:56 AM
 
Location: Suburbia
8,826 posts, read 15,317,133 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBob96 View Post
Congratulations Captain Obvious.

That doesn't mean that they are Constitutional according to the intentions of the Framers and the 2nd amendment.
To decide...That’s the job of the court.
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Old 12-24-2019, 09:07 AM
 
19,718 posts, read 10,118,354 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgbwc View Post
To decide...That’s the job of the court.
Which makes decisions based not on the Constitution but political leaning.
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Old 12-24-2019, 09:09 AM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
18,454 posts, read 7,086,044 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgbwc View Post
To decide...That’s the job of the court.



The Constitution doesn't need "interpreting".

It wasn't written in ancient Sanskrit.

The only people who contend that we need to decipher the intentions of the Founders are the ones who disagree with what the Constitution and the Bill of Rights very plainly say.
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Old 12-24-2019, 09:11 AM
 
28,122 posts, read 12,589,417 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floorist View Post
Which makes decisions based not on the Constitution but political leaning.
Yes, they are protecting Govt rather than the nation itself. The two are not mutually exclusive.
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Old 12-24-2019, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Suburbia
8,826 posts, read 15,317,133 times
Reputation: 4533
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBob96 View Post
The Constitution doesn't need "interpreting".

It wasn't written in ancient Sanskrit.

The only people who contend that we need to decipher the intentions of the Founders are the ones who disagree with what the Constitution and the Bill of Rights very plainly say.
So why have the SCOTUS? Should we abolish Article III?
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Old 12-24-2019, 09:34 AM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
18,454 posts, read 7,086,044 times
Reputation: 11699
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgbwc View Post
So why have the SCOTUS? Should we abolish Article III?



Not everything the SC hears is about deciphering Constitutionality.

But I do agree that the SC has become more important in modern politics than they should be.

Largely because of the Democrats attempts to do end runs around the Constitution and legislate via the courts.
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Old 12-24-2019, 09:39 AM
 
45,222 posts, read 26,431,296 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgbwc View Post
To decide...That’s the job of the court.
Some govt employees put on robes, held a meeting and decided the non-robe wearing govt employees were correct.
Dr. Suess couldn't have come up with a better story.
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