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Old 03-01-2020, 12:41 PM
 
46,951 posts, read 25,984,404 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vacoder View Post
Black soldiers did fight for the south.

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-...black-soldiers
The law allowing for the enlistment of black soldiers was passed on March 13th, the surrender was on April 9th. The South had to be cornered like rats before even considering black soldiers, and even so, several Southern Gentlemen protested.

There were undoubtedly servants and grunt workers at the front before then, but black soldiers were never acknowledged as anything but a desperate last effort.

 
Old 03-01-2020, 12:59 PM
 
20,955 posts, read 8,672,766 times
Reputation: 14050
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburban_Guy View Post
This makes zero sense to me, put up a statue of a fictional character in response to statues of real life people? Oh well, whatever works.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...131104241.html
A really great monument is the giant one carved for the dudes in that movie about Glory....the Black Regiment led by a Boston white officer in the Civil War. That is a moving piece.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert...al_(36053).jpg

I read your title and hoped they finally had one for Bob Marley there.
:-)
 
Old 03-01-2020, 01:04 PM
 
20,955 posts, read 8,672,766 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
The law allowing for the enlistment of black soldiers was passed on March 13th, the surrender was on April 9th. The South had to be cornered like rats before even considering black soldiers, and even so, several Southern Gentlemen protested.

There were undoubtedly servants and grunt workers at the front before then, but black soldiers were never acknowledged as anything but a desperate last effort.
Even the white soldiers conscripted were a desperate last effort. But if one owned 20 negroes they were not subject to being conscripted. Desertion was a major problem as the average Confederate soldier after the first year of the war knew that he was fighting for the wealthy....

Black folks in the South were amazing spies during the war - working along with patriotic Southern Citizens who fed info to the Union. The Whites in command didn't think blacks were smart enough to do such things so they were largely ignored and allowed to go on their way.

Some people never learn. A great book on the subject is free with Prime Reading "Lincolns Spies".

So lots of Blacks in the South helped the War Effort.....for the NORTH.
 
Old 03-01-2020, 01:10 PM
 
46,951 posts, read 25,984,404 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
Even the white soldiers conscripted were a desperate last effort. But if one owned 20 negroes they were not subject to being conscripted. Desertion was a major problem as the average Confederate soldier after the first year of the war knew that he was fighting for the wealthy....

Black folks in the South were amazing spies during the war - working along with patriotic Southern Citizens who fed info to the Union. The Whites in command didn't think blacks were smart enough to do such things so they were largely ignored and allowed to go on their way.

Some people never learn. A great book on the subject is free with Prime Reading "Lincolns Spies".

So lots of Blacks in the South helped the War Effort.....for the NORTH.
Slave owners would even refuse to send slaves to do fortification work and the like - after the confiscation order, a slave captured by Union forces would be freed, and that predictably motivated mass desertions.

The black Confederate soldier is generally trotted out as an attempt to decouple the Confederacy from its racist foundations.
 
Old 03-01-2020, 02:04 PM
 
Location: NW Nevada
18,158 posts, read 15,626,323 times
Reputation: 17149
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
A really great monument is the giant one carved for the dudes in that movie about Glory....the Black Regiment led by a Boston white officer in the Civil War. That is a moving piece.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert...al_(36053).jpg

I read your title and hoped they finally had one for Bob Marley there.
:-)
No no no. As I was told you just dont get it man. I made a much similar observation regarding the 10th and 11th cavalry troopers and their service and contribution in history. I was told that just wont do.

A more ethereal and whimsical presentation is much more appropriate. One portraying more up to date imagery shown in a dominant manner over an image from the past.

Thus a deed head banger on a horse. See? I went back to the slideshow and closely examined the image to try and see just what it was I was missing in my initial response to this "artistic impression "

Alas, it seems I'm still not getting it myself. I still see two separate and very disparate images crammed together that dont belong together.

But why on Earth would the artist wish to portray and there y honor real men who did real deeds from real history that accomplished real things. If memory serves the 10th and 11th cavalry had a significant number of MOH awards for absolute above and beyond actions in combat. As did the unit you mentioned of infantry, the 54th Maryland I believe. Correct. me if I'm in error on that one.

Though I know their assault on Fort Charleston is legend. Even though just like every other assault on that redoubt it failed. The fort remained untaken until the Confederacys surrender.

No we must draw a nebulous message from a piece of work that to me anyway seems like two separate images thrown together. And if we just dont draw the intended message from the piece that makes us at the best a low brow austrolopethicene.

(sigh)
 
Old 03-01-2020, 02:33 PM
 
73,007 posts, read 62,598,043 times
Reputation: 21929
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
The law allowing for the enlistment of black soldiers was passed on March 13th, the surrender was on April 9th. The South had to be cornered like rats before even considering black soldiers, and even so, several Southern Gentlemen protested.

There were undoubtedly servants and grunt workers at the front before then, but black soldiers were never acknowledged as anything but a desperate last effort.
I know this and you know this. This is why I am ardently against the Confederacy. The Confederates fought to keep my ancestors enslaved. It's written in the Articles of Secession and the Confederate Constitution. All the more reason when I watch videos of Confederate flags being burned, I smile. Yes, I have that much disdain for the Confederate flag.

And now coming back from my tangent. I notice that some people will say "Blacks fought for the Confederacy too". Far more Blacks fought for the Union than the Confederacy, and the Union let Blacks fight for the Union long before the Confederacy. And the South only started letting Blacks fight for the Confederacy as a last ditch attempt. It did not work. The Confederacy was on its way to being gone. It was all over.

And one more thing some people should understand. The Confederacy issues and edict to return Blacks in Union uniform back to slavery, and to put to death any Black man taking up arms against the Confederacy. The Confederacy also issued and edict to put White commanders of Black regiments to death for "starting a slave rebellion".
 
Old 03-01-2020, 02:34 PM
 
73,007 posts, read 62,598,043 times
Reputation: 21929
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
Slave owners would even refuse to send slaves to do fortification work and the like - after the confiscation order, a slave captured by Union forces would be freed, and that predictably motivated mass desertions.

The black Confederate soldier is generally trotted out as an attempt to decouple the Confederacy from its racist foundations.
Touting the "black Confederate" is a way some people gaslight others for pointing out that the Confederate cause was about preserving slavery in the South and having it expanded west.
 
Old 03-01-2020, 02:35 PM
 
7,420 posts, read 2,709,177 times
Reputation: 7783
Quote:
Originally Posted by NVplumber View Post
No. I read the link. I just never developed this nebulous way of looking at "art" that looks for all these hidden meanings and statements. I'm certain you have this trait though, a d can ooo and ahhh at a large canvas splattered with various color paints the "artist" hurled with a home made catapult and see a dissertation on man's inhumanity to man.

I have a different sort of view about what constitutes "art". Just for the helluvit I just have to toss out that your particular take on this statue is hardly the last word on the subject. Nor is mine or anyone else's. Opinions vary on such things. Such is as it is.

You choose to see what this statues creator was going for. Some sort of statement about a rise from oppression to a grand and triumphant rise to present a d future glory. OK. So happy for the pair of you.

I see a representation of a guy in modern mode of dress considered fashionable amongst street ruffian types on the back of quite a good looking equine looking VERY out of place on said animal. A ...situation...that if were to happen in real life would probably wind up with said ruffian hanging on to whatever handy point on the saddle is available (I didnt identify the specific tack on the horse) but still winding up dismounting in an undignified manner in the end.

So much for...context.
Many Virginians find this piece of art inspiring and uplifting. Folks are very proud of it, especially the citizens of Richmond.
 
Old 03-01-2020, 03:18 PM
 
73,007 posts, read 62,598,043 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corpgypsy View Post
Many Virginians find this piece of art inspiring and uplifting. Folks are very proud of it, especially the citizens of Richmond.
I could see that. I notice the biggest critics of the statue don't live anywhere near Richmond.
 
Old 03-01-2020, 03:26 PM
 
73,007 posts, read 62,598,043 times
Reputation: 21929
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
Even the white soldiers conscripted were a desperate last effort. But if one owned 20 negroes they were not subject to being conscripted. Desertion was a major problem as the average Confederate soldier after the first year of the war knew that he was fighting for the wealthy....

Black folks in the South were amazing spies during the war - working along with patriotic Southern Citizens who fed info to the Union. The Whites in command didn't think blacks were smart enough to do such things so they were largely ignored and allowed to go on their way.

Some people never learn. A great book on the subject is free with Prime Reading "Lincolns Spies".

So lots of Blacks in the South helped the War Effort.....for the NORTH.
As with every war, it's a rich man's battle, but a poor man's fight. And there were White southerners who fought AGAINST the Confederacy.

And the fact that many Blacks became spies for the Union says something: They were not for the Confederates. They were not pro-Confederate. And this is something many people don't like. And the fact that there were individuals who prescribed to some stupid ideas about race shows how easily many people can be duped. It was for the best. The Confederacy lost, got their rear ends handed for them. And I'm happy for that.

This is the thing. Some people don't want to learn. Some people still wish the South had won.
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