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This is big! This marks the first time that Hammas as recognized that Israel has a right to exist. While we have a long way to go this is a big step!
Carter: Hamas is willing to accept Israel as its neighbor - Yahoo! News (broken link)
One of the problems with identifying Hamas is that it isn't entirely formed entity. Back in 2006 there were revisions to the Hamas charter that were then reissued, but still the 1988 charter is all that is ever posted. In addition, there were members of Hamas that have called for a 10 year ceasefire and a recognition of the state of Israel if Israel agreed to withdraw from the occupied territories and to the original 1967 borders. (The blue line) While this is positive progress, it is not actually new.
While many will point to the violent history of Hamas and conveniently omit the fact that Israel at one time supported them in an effort to splinter the then powerful PLO under Arafat. They will also omit that Israel and the United States fails to recognize Hamas as a legitimate government, despite the fact that it is currently consolidating with the Fatah members (such as Abbas, the man the US and Israel do recognize) in an effort to move towards a more viable and unified governing body. It seems that we only recognize democracies that we install and not ones that are actually voted into office. Do we honestly believe that we get to pick and choose who gets to rule other nations, have we become so egotistical?
Hamas is no group of boy scouts and they have a great deal of blood on their hands, even if it isn't OUR blood, we act as if it is. Even still, we can either further attempt to splinter Hamas, which has so far failed miserably, or we can attempt to help bring it into the moderate fold.
Contrary to popular belief, many in Israel would like to see an attempt at peace with the Palestinians, even through Hamas. It is an idea more rejected in the United States than it is even in Israel, which I find baffling.
Quote:
To Tel-Aviv, April 13, 2008
Mr. Jimmy Carter, Former President of the United States
Dear Mr. President
I am writing to you on behalf of Gush Shalom, The Israeli Peace Bloc, to congratulate you on your wise and courageous decision to meet in Damascus with Hamas leaders and talk with them on the ways to promote peace in our region. I believe this is an act whose time had come - or rather, is already long overdue - and I would have liked the Government of Israel to avail itself of your position, your prestige and your tireless energy, in order to help end the suffering and bloodshed among both peoples.
Prior to the Balfour Declaration, the Zionist movement attempted to purchase land in what is now Israel and the Occupied Territories. It was in part out of Antisemitism that the Balfour Declaration came into being. It was seen as a way to rid many European nations of their Jewish populations and through the creation of a Jewish state, the hopes were that Jews would immigrate to a country of their own.
Granted, the majority of the Jewish population in Israel is not of semitic origins, this means little in a greater context. What gives any people or group the right to exist is their ability to actually exist. Using your argument that since most Jews in Israel are migrants from Eastern Europe, (Ashkanazim as opposed to Sephardim) then they have no rights to the land that is now Israel. So then, using this logic, could we not say that it is wrong that Britain, America, and Canadians (to name a few) do not have the right to exist in the lands of America, Canada, or Australia?
While I certainly don't agree with how things are currently transpiring, it is rather ridiculous to paint this as some conspiracy of conquest that was formed by Eastern European Jews.
Also, as you claim that "real Jews" are against Zionism to which I am guessing that you are referring to those of a more Orthodox nature or the Nutri Karta who believe that the state of Israel can only exist when the Jewish peoples have redeemed themselves in the eyes of God and return from Diaspora and not by the creation of man. So, I have to ask, do you think the Muslim population of the region would lay down their arms and welcome the Jewish people if there was proof that God gave it to them?
It makes me crack up every time I hear that Israel has a RIGHT to exist. Im not against Israel existing, but rather against it existing on Palestinian land, on the blood of Arabs. I say for those who are die hard Israel supporters, where do you get your morality?. Hamas and the rest of the Palestinians will continue to resist the occupation to their land. The faster we realize that, the better off we are.
If Jews do want a home land for jews only (no matter how racist such an idea sounds) they let it be on lands that are given to them, or lands they can buy with the understanding that a nation of Israel would exist on it. I'm sure New York, New Jersey, Germany and others are willing to accommodate.
Funny how people call the original inhabitants of the land terrorist and such when the Israeli's have killed three times as many innocent people.
This should immediately debunk plenty of the posts in this thread,however,most American's and Israeli's are racist idiots who completely ignore 100% true,world wide known facts.I guess it is ok to loot,steal,plunder and oppress,as long as youre white.Fight back against these evil,greedy invaders,and youre a ''terrorist'.
Last edited by lioninaconcretejungle; 04-21-2008 at 11:57 PM..
Of course Israel has a right to exist. It's WHERE Israel is existing that has been the problem. I don't know if they'll ever (at least, in my lifetime), agree on the country's boundaries. And, of course, there are the claims over Jerusalem.
Hamas says this today and then they say that tomorrow and launch rockets.
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