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There's literally 1.5 tenets to our whole philosophy.
1. The non-aggression principle.
.5 (extension of #1) Respect for private property rights.
It's actually the easiest viewpoint to understand. Statism is the tough one to understand or debate. It doesn't really have any principles (means). It's based almost solely on ends. It's basically an entity of practice and not a philosophy. If I had to list principles of statism (and I say this without any pride or prejudice) I would put involuntary collectivism as the core tenet. Statists get very upset at that but I'm not sure it can be denied.
They generally get upset because they don't like to think of themselves as murderers, rapists, and robbers or more appropriately in today's societal structure...supporters of mercenaries who do murdering, raping, and robbing on their behalf (those mercenaries would be governments).
Being able to logically and morally counter anarchy (the illegitimacy of rulers) has been impossible in my experience. I continue to try though.
They have no idea what you are talking about.
Violence is part of their life and they believe they are entitled to your property.
I'm going to try something new. Hey, I'm a glutton for punishment.
Have any of you seen the movie Misery with Kathy Bates and James Caan? If so it would help and if not that's still ok. I think you'll still be able to see what I'm talking about.
Would you be willing to watch a 2:30 clip from it that I believe illustrates the viewpoint of anarchists?
The non-aggression principle is the central idea. Don't initiate force against peaceful people or their property. Only use force to defend yourself, others, or their belongings...never bring violence into a non-violent situation.
There are libertarians who might describe it differently, and some are more consistent than others, but that's what the libertarian philosophy is.
So looking at it from that perspective, our views might make more sense. We probably agree on a lot of goals, but we rule out the initiation of force as an acceptable way of achieving them.
That's fine. So what is your solution to caring for people who can't care for themselves such as children? Do we collectively care for them or do we rely on charity and hope the other guys take care of it?
That's fine. So what is your solution to caring for people who can't care for themselves such as children? Do we collectively care for them or do we rely on charity and hope the other guys take care of it?
Instead of asking him what he would do have you ever thought about what you would do in such a situation?
That's fine. So what is your solution to caring for people who can't care for themselves such as children? Do we collectively care for them or do we rely on charity and hope the other guys take care of it?
Sure, help any way we can, but first rule out initiating force as an option.
I live in an area with a decent amount of homeless people, and it gets pretty cold here. I want them to be helped, but obviously I'm not going to approach strangers on the street and force them into it...and since I won't personally do that, I won't vote for someone to do it on my behalf.
Instead of asking him what he would do have you ever thought about what you would do in such a situation?
I'm not being malicious here. Serious question.
I'm fine with tax dollars being spent on that. In fact, I expect if the government is going to take taxes from me that they do something I find worthwhile with it like protecting children, elderly, disabled. It's my understanding that able-bodied single people have trouble getting assistance. I'm not concerned with them. They have options.
Quote:
Originally Posted by T0103E
Sure, help any way we can, but first rule out initiating force as an option.
I live in an area with a decent amount of homeless people, and it gets pretty cold here. I want them to be helped, but obviously I'm not going to approach strangers on the street and force them into it...and since I won't personally do that, I won't vote for someone to do it on my behalf.
By force you mean taxation? It seems ineffective to try and raise money voluntarily for each thing that society needs. Roads, libraries, schools, national defense...fundraisers? What is so wrong(sorry IMMORAL) about having people pay according to their ability and just chip in on everything?
Are you advocating no government or just a specific kind of government?
I'm fine with tax dollars being spent on that. In fact, I expect if the government is going to take taxes from me that they do something I find worthwhile with it like protecting children, elderly, disabled. It's my understanding that able-bodied single people have trouble getting assistance. I'm not concerned with them. They have options.
But taxation requires force.
You asked T0103E what he would do in a society not contingent upon force initiation.
You asked T0103E what he would do in a society not contingent upon force initiation.
He answered.
What would you do?
There wouldn't be much, by myself, I could do. I could buy a few families some groceries but how would I even know who needed help? I guess I could volunteer at a nursing home and cook a few meals to cut costs for them. That's why I'm for taxation handling it. You guys are saying that we shouldn't use taxes to pay for those things.
I donate platelets now because that's the only thing currently that will get a cancer patient's blood to clot. I don't go around saying people should be forced to do that even though there is always a shortage. That to me would be violence. Money is just money.
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