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Not true. 30 years ago bureaucratic superstructure was much smaller, it is obscene now, and that's where the real money to be made in academia. Do not forget about mushrooming degree and class offerings of dubious value as well as prestige considerations behind ever increasing number of research programs (yes, of dubious or zero value). And yes, sports are everywhere, not just big name Universities. Subsidies are ever increasing. But academia is like a dope dealer, it feels that status anxiety in society is going through the roof, people are willing to pay arm and leg for a chance to climb the ladder. Naturally academia charges what status/job anxious market is willing to pay.
You can throw all sorts of theories out there, but it doesn't change the fact that college was artificially cheap 30 years ago. It's been artificially cheap since just after WWII.. And that's when the US government started it's big handouts for education.
Take a look at tuition rates compared to median salary between 1200 and 1900. It was much closer to today's tuition rates.
I earned a partial, academic scholarship in my field of study from the university I attended. the terms of the scholarship required I maintain a minimum grade point average, carry a full time schedule, and graduate in 4 years.
I don't think government should be involved at all in college tuition. if I had been given a free college education with no restrictions it would have been tempting to stay in college for at least a decade. Not a good adult life choice.
Last edited by texan2yankee; 12-26-2019 at 12:49 PM..
You can throw all sorts of theories out there, but it doesn't change the fact that college was artificially cheap 30 years ago. It's been artificially cheap since just after WWII.. And that's when the US government started it's big handouts for education.
Take a look at tuition rates compared to median salary between 1200 and 1900. It was much closer to today's tuition rates.
Yeah, that’s true. I looked into it myself while comparing the cost of my education (luckily paid for by my dad) vs my son’s education (paid for by me). My dad got off pretty easy when I indexed the cost of my degree against my father’s income. That’s why he was able to afford my apartment rent on top of everything else. And my books were pretty cheap too at the time. About $125 bucks a semester. My son’s books were usually $400-$500 a semester. The cost of printing books couldn’t have possibly went up by THAT much.
So my assumption has always been that the cost of college in my day was artificially low. Had to be.
You can throw all sorts of theories out there, but it doesn't change the fact that college was artificially cheap 30 years ago. It's been artificially cheap since just after WWII.. And that's when the US government started it's big handouts for education.
Take a look at tuition rates compared to median salary between 1200 and 1900. It was much closer to today's tuition rates.
What do you mean artificially cheap? My theory is easily testable and quantifiable : take the number of 900k ++ vice presidents or provosts for something or other, counsellors and advisors, the number of degrees, departments, classes, the number of zero impact research projects, the number of sports teams and athletes universities bankroll in 1989 and 2019. Compare. Estimate extra $ per student head. "status anxiety" and "willingness" to pay are hard to quantify, so lets skip that, just remember that recent enrollment scandal giving us an idea about the extra sums somewhat wealthy people were willing to pay to properly position their kids in academia. Divide their average wealth by an average national income and you'll get an idea about how much extra a middle class person is willing and able to pay for an extra chance for their kids.
Engineering versus worthless liberal arts , says the OP in the thread title.
I disagree with this statement. Our 4 daughters went to liberal arts colleges with our full support of the decision. We encouraged them to do so, actually, as we believed the value of a well rounded education was quite important to their entire life. In discussing education in narrow terms of value in the job market one could say we thought college would be for that last job in their life not just for the first they'd obtain as they matriculated. However, college, to us, as I hinted at, was much more than a place to obtain a skill and a job and a dollar based ROI.
This decision has served them quite well as they each now hold advanced degrees with 3 of them having obtained their doctorates. Law, Education and Science are where all 4 landed. Most likely due to their undergraduate degrees in liberal arts. They are well employed, entertaining, articulate individuals and married to equally successful and fulfilled individuals . The whole motley crew of them have a lifelong quest to continue building on their broad based liberal arts foundation and be productive, flexible and functioning members of society.
In our increasingly evolving, globalized world, liberal arts colleges produce critical thinkers who have the confidence and flexibility to continually learn new skills and material. Liberal arts colleges focus on how to think, how to learn and how to communicate. In his book, The World Is Flat: A Brief History of the Twenty-First Century, Thomas Friedman states “in an age when parts or all of many jobs are constantly going to be exposed to digitization, automation, and outsourcing…it is not only what you know but how you learn".
Steve Jobs once said, “Technology alone is not enough. It’s technology married with the liberal arts, married with the humanities, that yields us the results that make our hearts sing.”
What do you mean artificially cheap? My theory is easily testable and quantifiable : take the number of 900k ++ vice presidents or provosts for something or other, counsellors and advisors, the number of degrees, departments, classes, the number of zero impact research projects, the number of sports teams and athletes universities bankroll in 1989 and 2019. Compare. Estimate extra $ per student head. "status anxiety" and "willingness" to pay are hard to quantify, so lets skip that, just remember that recent enrollment scandal giving us an idea about the extra sums somewhat wealthy people were willing to pay to properly position their kids in academia. Divide their average wealth by an average national income and you'll get an idea about how much extra a middle class person is willing and able to pay for an extra chance for their kids.
You're using a small sample... and are cherry picking a specific period that supports your theory. Do the same thing every 50 years between 1200 and 2019.
Yeah, that’s true. I looked into it myself while comparing the cost of my education (luckily paid for by my dad) vs my son’s education (paid for by me). My dad got off pretty easy when I indexed the cost of my degree against my father’s income. That’s why he was able to afford my apartment rent on top of everything else. And my books were pretty cheap too at the time. About $125 bucks a semester. My son’s books were usually $400-$500 a semester. The cost of printing books couldn’t have possibly went up by THAT much.
So my assumption has always been that the cost of college in my day was artificially low. Had to be.
Text book racket is no longer a figure of speech. It feels like genuine extortion. I guess textbook extortion schemes were artificially suppressed in the past.
Engineering versus worthless liberal arts , says the OP in the thread title.
I disagree with this statement. Our 4 daughters went to liberal arts colleges with our full support of the decision. We encouraged them to do so, actually, as we believed the value of a well rounded education was quite important to their entire life. In discussing education in narrow terms of value in the job market one could say we thought college would be for that last job in their life not just for the first they'd obtain as they matriculated. However, college, to us, as I hinted at, was much more than a place to obtain a skill and a job and a dollar based ROI.
This decision has served them quite well as they each now hold advanced degrees with 3 of them having obtained their doctorates. Law, Education and Science are where all 4 landed. Most likely due to their undergraduate degrees in liberal arts. They are well employed, entertaining, articulate individuals and married to equally successful and fulfilled individuals . The whole motley crew of them have a lifelong quest to continue building on their broad based liberal arts foundation and be productive, flexible and functioning members of society.
In our increasingly evolving, globalized world, liberal arts colleges produce critical thinkers who have the confidence and flexibility to continually learn new skills and material. In his book, The World Is Flat: A Brief History of the Twenty-First Century, Thomas Friedman states that “in an age when parts or all of many jobs are constantly going to be exposed to digitization, automation, and outsourcing…it is not only what you know but how you learn".
Steve Jobs once said, “Technology alone is not enough. It’s technology married with the liberal arts, married with the humanities, that yields us the results that make our hearts sing.”
I meet lots of liberal arts graduates in my volunteer work at the animal shelter. these very smart, educated employees of the shelter make $10 an hour.
a liberal arts degree is wonderful. I would love to have been able to get such a degree, but wanted to be able to support myself after I graduated from college.
Engineering versus worthless liberal arts , says the OP in the thread title.
The OP has clearly never stepped into a university.
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