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Old 12-24-2019, 07:33 AM
 
5,213 posts, read 3,009,200 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
Choice.

If you don't want a loan, you can choose to have your salary taxed.

What's wrong with the ability to choose?
No one has said anything about not having a choice. Not sure why you would bring that up.
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Old 12-24-2019, 07:35 AM
 
34,002 posts, read 17,035,093 times
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OP, No. Those in Majors such as Science or any field with solid future BLS projections regarding jobs should get far lower interest rates, and more years to pay loans back, as they represent a lower risk of default.
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Old 12-24-2019, 07:36 AM
 
34,619 posts, read 21,598,192 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawk55732 View Post
No one has said anything about not having a choice. Not sure why you would bring that up.
I'm saying I'm ok with giving students that choice.
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Old 12-24-2019, 07:38 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
I'm saying I'm ok with giving students that choice.
Ok, that makes sense.
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Old 12-24-2019, 07:52 AM
 
23,968 posts, read 15,063,270 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOinGA View Post
College isn't trade school. While one should be cognizant of the employment opportunities related to their majors, that is not the sole purpose of higher education. It is of worth to periodically examine your biases to see how well they do or do not hold up in the real world.

"On LinkedIn each year author Dan Schawbel writes a list of workplace trends to watch for in the coming year. This time around Schawbel makes this prediction about degrees in subjects like literature, philosophy and history:

"AI will automate technical skills and drive the demand for soft skills like creativity, communication and empathy. While there's been such a focus on recruiting STEM over the past several years, those majors will continue to lose relevance, while liberal arts majors will become more valuable to companies moving forward."

He goes on to cite research showing that "while liberal arts majors have lower starting salaries, their salaries rise much quicker over the course of their lives than STEM majors" (other research supports this claim) as well as a McKinsey report that concluded liberal arts skills are the least likely to be automated. A massive Google project to crunch tons of HR data to find the most important skills for success at the company surprised everyone by determining that tech skills mattered the least and soft skills the most."


This is lost on most POC posters. When DH was a long range planner for a big company he hired English and History majors because they could get any information the engineers and accountants needed.

Engineers, science and accountants also like music, books, plays and movies, too. What does one do with all that money they are earning as engineers. Sit in their room and count it while looking out the window?
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Old 12-24-2019, 07:58 AM
 
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The return on investment for pursuing a worthwhile degree is reward enough. The engineering major will out earn the liberal arts major, according to a 2015 study done at Georgetown University, by $15k annually over the course of their respective careers.

In the first 10 years, that STEM degree paid for itself relative to the liberal arts degree, just on ROI difference.

No need to involve the tyrannical hand of government in what the free market already rewards properly.
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Old 12-24-2019, 08:13 AM
 
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At many public and private universities the people in the stem majors already have higher test scores and thus merit scholarships.

My progeny paid on average only about 20% of the standard tuition.
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Old 12-24-2019, 08:21 AM
 
23,968 posts, read 15,063,270 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
The return on investment for pursuing a worthwhile degree is reward enough. The engineering major will out earn the liberal arts major, according to a 2015 study done at Georgetown University, by $15k annually over the course of their respective careers.

In the first 10 years, that STEM degree paid for itself relative to the liberal arts degree, just on ROI difference.

No need to involve the tyrannical hand of government in what the free market already rewards properly.
As my history major grandson, and music major grandchildren have discovered, there is more to life than money. So glad they learned that lesson early. And all of them could have gone into other fields. One made nearly perfect SAT on math, one did nearly perfect on the whole thing.

One didn't care. He still doesn't do his assignments. But he has been making all the money he needs since entering college. He pays what his scholarship doesn't plus living expenses, singing.
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Old 12-24-2019, 08:28 AM
 
13,944 posts, read 5,615,884 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crone View Post
As my history major grandson, and music major grandchildren have discovered, there is more to life than money. So glad they learned that lesson early. And all of them could have gone into other fields. One made nearly perfect SAT on math, one did nearly perfect on the whole thing.

One didn't care. He still doesn't do his assignments. But he has been making all the money he needs since entering college. He pays what his scholarship doesn't plus living expenses, singing.
I made no judgment whatsoever on the merits of liberals arts degrees.

I was arguing that the free market already rewards STEM majors more than liberal arts majors, so the idea that Leviathan needs to jam its hateful snout into yet another facet of life that currently IS NOT A PROBLEM and does not therefore require a tyrannical attempt at a solution is clearly absurd.

I am a believer in people pursuing that which serves their rational self-interests the best according to their own individual criteria, and that at no point should anyone or any group be dictating terms to them or forcing them to do anything, even if through bribery like free tuition. If the market need engineers, the market will produce sufficient reward to entice people to become engineers. if the market needs more history majors, then again, the market will provide incentives for people to study history. In the end, individuals decide for themselves, as it should be.
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Old 12-24-2019, 08:43 AM
 
19,387 posts, read 6,497,447 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
Sure, if the student agrees to pay 10% of their salary for the rest of their careers to fund the next group.
Oh, wow....that's an excellent idea. Start with taxpayer funding for a specified number of years, and then switch it to "returning the favor" from successful engineers.
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