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Old 12-26-2019, 11:15 AM
 
Location: 500 miles from home
33,942 posts, read 22,527,236 times
Reputation: 25816

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndcairngorm View Post
OP must be one of those top one percenters that most of the candidates are out to grab.
On the internet - everybody is a top one percenter. Especially on CD.
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Old 12-26-2019, 11:24 AM
 
Location: minnesota
15,861 posts, read 6,325,302 times
Reputation: 5058
Quote:
Originally Posted by warhorse78 View Post
Heh, you really think the establishment will let him become a great president? You know damn well they rigged the 2016 DNC primaries so he wouldn't be on the ticket. That's small scale. Imagine what they would have done to him if he got in as president? Trump has been around these elite blood suckers all his life. He is one of them, but the fact that the Bush's, Clintons and Obamas, who are up to their eyeballs in corruption, are against both Trump and Sanders, is good enough for me to support either one of them. But, more than likely Trump has blackmail on them to keep him safe, while I doubt Bernie Sanders has anything of the sort as a security measure, so will be easily taken out if he ever got in the running.



I'm just learning that Joe Biden, when he was senator, created a bill back in 94/95 that will be the basis of the Patriot Act. The fact that all of these long time political empires, the Bush's and Clintons, have been behind most of our legislation, has to tell you something is seriously wrong, and that the system is indeed rigged.



I was one of those "Ds". Like I said, I was tired of the long established politicians, and wanted some fresh blood in there. It's also why we need term limits for congress, and maybe more rules in place that once you served your term, you have to avoid contact with anyone in government for the next ten years, so we can keep corruption and empires from forming as well as we possibly can.


Just speculating here. But here goes. Elite like power and money, and what better way to keep that power and money than by gaining control of industries that everyone needs. First, was creating the world banks and setting up a system of credits. Next was creating expensive universities, and through that, they would gain control of other industries like the medical, engineering and law so they can rewrite the rules that you had to have degrees in order to operate in those industries. So, that's basically what is happening. The elite have control and are rigging these industries so only they will have the means to work in them. And, thanks to their law schools, would send their students to practice law, then eventually run for state and federal attorney seats and eventually judge seats and other lawmaker positions, and they are sure to craft laws that cater to the rich. Like loopholes where the rich can donate to charity organizations in return to pay less taxes, and then the charity money is used to fund some poor people who want to go to medical or law school, and in turn, goes right back into the universities that they created and can use to manipulate the young minds to do their bidding when they graduate.



Hmmm, but you are looking at only one side. What kind of taxes will your employer be hit with? This happened before in the past, when politicians and unions thought they could tax the businesses to pay for the workers, and what happened was the businesses just packed up and moved overseas to get away from the high taxes. Or, do what Walmart is doing now, slashing their employee base in half and putting up self checking registers or other animatronics to do the work, or do what Disney did and cut their American workforce and replaced it with H1B1 workers. With that, they don't have to worry about social security, payroll taxes, workman's compensation and insurance.
I'm not sure what you are referring to. I didn't see anything about making companies pick up the tab. If you have some information regards that I'd like to see it. It looks to me like M4all will be paid for by the surcharge and an increased marginal tax rate on the uber-wealthy. I'm sure my employer would love to be free of the health care burden they are under now for employees. If I add their contribution to that tax calculator I come out ahead 15000 a year.
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Old 12-26-2019, 11:30 AM
 
Location: Near Falls Lake
4,254 posts, read 3,175,378 times
Reputation: 4701
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBob96 View Post
There's a lot more to the high cost of health care than drugs.

The high cost of medical education.

The high salaries of medical professionals and administrators.

The high cost of testing and medical equipment.

Example:

The cost of new technologies goes down over time in just about any other field you'd care to name.

But not in healthcare.

The MRI has been around for decades and yet it still costs thousands of dollars for a non invasive scan that takes only minutes and is usually preformed by technicians who aren't very highly paid the way physicians are.

Why?

The high cost of health care is actually pretty complicated with no one aspect the culprit.
That said, based on my time in the contract engineering field, where I and my company worked on an FDA project, I can tell you specifically why the cost of medical equipment is excessive compared to electronic equipment used in other industries. The amount of regulation and documentation required is excessive! For example, on one project we did, we had to track the raw material used in making resistors (a part valued a .002 per) all the way back to the mine where the carbon came from. What do you think the cost was by the time all the paperwork was performed? Multiply this level of documentation by literally thousands or 10's of thousands and it is easy to see why cost of equipment is what it is. Now don't misunderstand, some "critical" electronic parts absolutely should be tracked but others have such a low failure rate that the effort to track far exceeds the value to be gained.
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Old 12-26-2019, 11:34 AM
 
Location: minnesota
15,861 posts, read 6,325,302 times
Reputation: 5058
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBob96 View Post
The fallacy that you're buying into is that you think that you're paying too much means that others who make more than you aren't paying enough.

Everyone pays too much.

There is no reason that any US citizen should pay a higher or lower percentage of their income in taxes than any other citizen.
Is what I'm talking about is a system where there are some big winners and a lot of losers. Let the big winners keep the people who are losing out off the streets. Let those of us in the middle take care of ourselves.
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Old 12-26-2019, 11:39 AM
 
6,675 posts, read 4,278,056 times
Reputation: 8441
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBob96 View Post
There's a lot more to the high cost of health care than drugs.

The high cost of medical education.

The high salaries of medical professionals and administrators.

The high cost of testing and medical equipment.

Example:

The cost of new technologies goes down over time in just about any other field you'd care to name.

But not in healthcare.

The MRI has been around for decades and yet it still costs thousands of dollars for a non invasive scan that takes only minutes and is usually preformed by technicians who aren't very highly paid the way physicians are.

Why?
I’ve seen numerous MRI bills and they run about $500. And that’s in expensive California.

They tried single payer in Bernie’s home state of Vermont and found it too expensive. Doubtful Bernie could win because he’s too socialist for the country right now.

Even if he were to be elected, he would be President and not emperor. He couldn’t get all his free crap through Congress. Not even with the Democrats. There’s too much political money at stake from some of the lobbyists that would be against his radical policies.
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Old 12-26-2019, 11:46 AM
 
Location: So Cal
52,264 posts, read 52,686,640 times
Reputation: 52776
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike930 View Post
I’ve seen numerous MRI bills and they run about $500. And that’s in expensive California.

They tried single payer in Bernie’s home state of Vermont and found it too expensive. Doubtful Bernie could win because he’s too socialist for the country right now.

Even if he were to be elected, he would be President and not emperor. He couldn’t get all his free crap through Congress. Not even with the Democrats. There’s too much political money at stake from some of the lobbyists that would be against his radical policies.
I agree, there' too much medical/insurance industry lobbyist that want to keep the status quo. There's too much money and special interest at stake to allow that much change to the system. It's why so many things don't get done in DC.

Republican, democrat, doesn't matter, they are all bought and paid for at some point by the big money donors.
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Old 12-26-2019, 11:59 AM
 
Location: minnesota
15,861 posts, read 6,325,302 times
Reputation: 5058
Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8 View Post
I'm not sure what you are referring to. I didn't see anything about making companies pick up the tab. If you have some information regards that I'd like to see it. It looks to me like M4all will be paid for by the surcharge and an increased marginal tax rate on the uber-wealthy. I'm sure my employer would love to be free of the health care burden they are under now for employees. If I add their contribution to that tax calculator I come out ahead 15000 a year.
Found it:

Quote:
7.5 percent income-based premium paid by employers
Revenue raised: $3.9 trillion over ten years.
Businesses would save over $9,000 in health care costs for the average employee under this
option
In 2016, employers paid an average of $12,865 in private health insurance premiums for a
worker with a family of four who makes $50,000 a year. Under this option, employers would
pay a 7.5 percent payroll tax to help finance Medicare for All – just $3,750 – a savings of more
than $9,000 a year for that employee.
During the four-year transition period to guarantee health care as a right, millions of workers will
have the option to transfer from their employer-provided health care to the new Medicare for All
system. As workers shift into the new system, employers will be required to pay either 75
percent of what they are currently paying for health care costs for each of their employees who
enroll in Medicare for All, or the 7.5 percent payroll tax, whichever is higher.
An employer’s first $2 million in payroll would be exempt from this premium protecting small
businesses throughout the country
https://www.sanders.senate.gov/downl...ll?inline=file

If my employer paid a 7.5% tax on my wages to cover my health insurance it's still less than what they kick in now. It's good for business, especially small business.
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Old 12-26-2019, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
18,461 posts, read 7,089,783 times
Reputation: 11702
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli34 View Post
You are really concerned about the plight of the wealthy elite in this country. They are using all their might and power to get their ways by lobbying our government and indoctrinating us with propaganda. They are the last group in this country you should be concerned about. The economic elite are doing insanely well these days. The only people you should worry about is yourself and others like you. That's it. If you don't fight for your way of life...then others with their power, money and political influence will do it for you. And they definitely don't have your best interests in mind....that's for sure.



I simply haven't fallen for the class envy propaganda of the Left.

I hold no ill will towards the wealthy.

If the government taxed everyone at 10% of their income, someone who makes 10X more than me would still be paying 10X more than me too.

I see no reason why the wealthy should pay a higher bracket than anyone else.
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Old 12-26-2019, 12:12 PM
 
Location: So Cal
52,264 posts, read 52,686,640 times
Reputation: 52776
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBob96 View Post
I simply haven't fallen for the class envy propaganda of the Left.

I hold no ill will towards the wealthy.

If the government taxed everyone at 10% of their income, someone who makes 10X more than me would still be paying 10X more than me too.

I see no reason why the wealthy should pay a higher bracket than anyone else.
I agree, rich people should pay their fair share, like anyone else should. I have a co-worker that thinks it's ok to tax 80 percent on the very rich. He just doesn't get it. I personally think it's immoral to take that much money away from someone. He says that if someone makes 10 million a year that should be ok with having 2 million left over. I just don't think that is fair, my opinion of course. I also think it's a productivity killer as well, why bust your ass if someone is going to tax you that heavily.
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Old 12-26-2019, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
18,461 posts, read 7,089,783 times
Reputation: 11702
Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8 View Post
Why would people have to pay more? Pay 4% more in taxes, yes but then have their health insurance done. We have the example of other developed countries to look at to see what will give. This isn't uncharted territory.


If you really think that paying 4% more in taxes is going to fund your healthcare (or that it would actually stay at 4%) , then we need to discuss some swamplands I have for sale...... CHEAP!!
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