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Hmmm...didn’t read the link, but seems like there must be more to the story. I always thought that student loans were one of those things that (besides death), you could never really get out of. Also, given the size of the loans, they were surely federal. Not sure how a judge can wipe out federal loans? Again, seems like there must be more to the story.
The student loan debt was discharged because the judge deemed the condition set forth in the Brunner test was met. All of them. This is the law. The difference lies in this particular case, the Brunner test conditions were satisfied; while in most bankruptcy cases, they were not.
Federal student loan debt is forgiven when debtor has a 10 year record of payments and works for the federal, state, county, or most local governments and most 501(c) 3 orgs. The area of study does not have to be aligned with job responsibilities.
It’s a swell benefit that is rarely talked about.
There are many reasons why many MDs prefer to be hospital system employees than independent contractors. Loan forgiveness is one of them. They can always go into private practice down the road.
That is true in theory, but there are a lot of very specific stipulations and rules. It’s called public health forgiveness, and something like less than 7% of people who got to Year 10, actually ended up receiving the debt forgiveness.
You ever think you should have gone to a Community collage for two years rather than waste two years at a four year rehashing high school redundancy courses .?
I went to a community college from 1994 to 1999. It took from 1999 to 2004 to get my bachelor's, even though I only was supposed to have two years to go with the transferred credits, because I kept getting sick and had to drop out sometimes and appeal to get back into the college. From 2005 to 2013 I worked on my graduate degree, which takes most people two years, because I was so sick I kept having to drop out and appeal to get back into the college. I had to file for extensions to the deadline on the credits to graduate a few times and almost timed out with nothing to show for it. Despite my illnesses, I still had a high GPA when I was able to finish a semester and I made Dean's list several times and even made the President's list once. I graduated with honors. I was never able to overcome my health problems. My former professors were shocked that I graduated since I was sick so much.
I never had the things in college that I had in high school. High school didn't teach much of anything. Even my college prep classes from high school didn't do anything to prepare for college. They kept dumbing down the material to where high school was a constant rehash of elementary school. They had to keep doing that to ensure the football players and basketball players passed classes. The players ran the school.
The law says it is dischargeable if the judge agrees with the debtor.
Ok, thank you for that.
Can the debtors appeal the ruling that was made in this case? If so, is it likely to stand?
Looks like this is a newer phenomenon, if it expands or if laws are passed (which I'm not entirely against) then there will likely be adjustments made by the lenders to the new landscape.
Can the debtors appeal the ruling that was made in this case? If so, is it likely to stand?
Looks like this is a newer phenomenon, if it expands or if laws are passed (which I'm not entirely against) then there will likely be adjustments made by the lenders to the new landscape.
This isn't new. People just aren't made aware of this or else more people would request relief during bankruptcy. Student loans are not impossible to get rid of in bankruptcy. They are just hard to get discharged in bankruptcy.
Cardozo Law School is ranked 52nd by U.S. News. Unless you graduate at the top of your class it is doubtful you will ever pay back the loans you took on.
That is not relevant.
He should have considered that prior to applying to law school, and even prior to taking the LSAT.
He certainly should have thought of it before taking student loans.
Rankings by US News are unimportant and irrelevant. Chase Law School at Northern Kentucky University isn't even ranked, and yet there are dozens of congress critters, federal judges and State court judges in Ohio, Kentucky, Tennessee, Indiana and Michigan who are graduates.
The individual makes the lawyer, not the law school.
He was probably a slacker who was too lazy to participate in moot court, didn't write for the law review, didn't do any pro bono work and didn't clerk for anyone of note. In fact, he probably didn't clerk at all.
Most law students clerk at local law firms or local State and federal courts, so if he did clerk, he probably sucked so bad no one wanted him.
Does he not have a laptop?
That's all you need to run your own law office. He can meet clients at home, the hospital, the work-place or where ever and if he's really motivated, he might even fork out $50-$100/month to rent an office.
So, clearly he's an unmotivated lame ass slacker.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hbdwihdh378y9
The law says it is dischargeable if the judge agrees with the debtor.
That's not what it says.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hbdwihdh378y9
The Brunner test is not "the law".
That much is true.
A debtor satisfies the "undue hardship" standard for the discharge of student loan debts under 11 USC § 523(a)(8) if there exists: (1) serious mental or physical disability of the debtor or the debtor's dependents which prevents employment or advancement; (2) the debtor's obligations to care for dependents; (3) lack of, or severely limited education; (4) poor quality of education; (5) lack of usable or marketable job skills; (6) underemployment; (7) maximized income potential in the chosen educational field, and no other more lucrative job skills; (8) limited number of years remaining in the debtor's work life to allow payment of the loan; (9) age or other factors that prevent retraining or relocation as a means for payment of the loan; (10) lack of assets, whether or not exempt, which could be used to pay the loan; (11) potentially increasing expenses that outweigh any potential appreciation in the value of the debtor's assets and/or likely increases in the debtor's income; (12) lack of better financial options elsewhere.
Circuit courts apply the test differently, some very narrowly and some very liberally.
For example, a debtor's circumstances must be indicative of a certainty of hopelessness, not merely a present inability to fulfill financial commitment, which is what this thread is about.
Also, some circuit courts use the Gerhardt Test instead of the Brunner Test.
Note that in both Tests, the court may grant a partial discharge instead of a full discharge.
That is true in theory, but there are a lot of very specific stipulations and rules. It’s called public health forgiveness, and something like less than 7% of people who got to Year 10, actually ended up receiving the debt forgiveness.
I think the rules for public service loan forgiveness are fairly straight forward. Anyone who is not having their loans forgiven clearly haven't been following through with the recommended instructions (they encourage you to file an annual employer certification form, which will tell you if you have the right loans and right employment type) only have themselves to blame IMO.
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