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I think that oversimplifies what is meant by “hard work doesn’t lead to a better life style”.
The American dream of being poor and working your way up the ladder is what is dying. The middle class feels stuck, the working poor feel stuck, heck upper middle feels stuck. You take on more jobs, do more work, more education and barely move up the ladder. That is what I think people mean by that statement.
Personally I do think individual hard work in our current big corporate system does not equate to better outcomes for most people. You really have to sacrifice everything from family to any personal time and devote it all to your job to get slightly ahead. That leads to burnout after a while and after 40 if you haven’t made it in that system your chances of making it start to fade.
Also many workers feel that the extra work get noticed but it just leads to more work with no payoff in the end. It’s the carrot on a stick, the promise of better pay/job without ever getting the payout. We can barely get wages to move with super low unemployment which means people are working but are not gaining ground.
Add to that the constant record breaking in the stock market which can make people feel like everyone is having a party except them as most Americans have no investments outside of a underfunded 401k. It’s the best of times and the worse of times these days.
Well said. This is how I interpret that statement as well.
"Hard work" doesn't mean working in a factory, a mine shaft or in construction.
As far as I am concerned its just an old saying and there is nothing is true about it or else there are a lot of people who shouldn't be rich or anybody's boss. The only thing I got out of working hard was the boss's indulgence. I learned at my first job if you work harder than any one else you don't have hide. If you are an honest hard worker management will leave you alone and that is good enough for me.
Dude, I worked at Home Depot and never once took my apron off to do tasks. After three months of hard work, they offered me a promotion to manager of the flooring department.
Still, I do agree that hard work alone is not enough for a person to be able to make it. Neither is a college degree. It takes networking, luck, willingness to move or take a job you don't like, maybe changing careers... and even then there's no guarantee. The US has a lot of jobs, but a crap-ton of them aren't going to make anyone rich.
This is it.
The main thing I'm sick of is expecting those who cannot do much more than hard work to land in a high-income career. Not everyone is going to be able to make a six-figure income, and even if everyone could, there would be many unable to sustain it. This is why people are given just enough welfare, low-wage jobs, and other benefits to make it through month to month. Anything more would be a total waste and more chaos than what it is now.
Isn't that the goal for most of us? financially? Like Chris Jansen sings.... "I ain't rich, but I damn sure wanna be"
"Isn't that the goal for most of us?"
Not according to many on the left. If you succeed and make a lot of money you are EVIL, you didn't earn it, you cheated and abused others to get there, and obama "you didn't build that"
Textbooks are the same for everyone. But brains are not.
I don't see how pouring more money into the system will improve the brains of those who are unlucky to be born dumb.
But what I see is that putting smart kids unto unsafe environment will drive them down for sure.
Ideally it should be just two level system: one schools for those who wants to learn, and others for those who doesn't. Shift all the money into the first level, leave nothing in the second. It would be much cheaper overall and way more effective. If kid doesn't want to learn or is too dumb - move him/her to the second level "school" and don't waste resources in vain.
This way society can save 2/3 on education taxes and have better overall outcome. Win-win.
"I don't see how pouring more money into the system will improve...."
" If you do the same thing over and over, do NOT expect a different outcome", as they say.
Sadly I have to agree with aileesic on this one. In addition to intelligence and personal skills, ther is also the issue of behavioral problems. Under current conditions, in-school fighting among students and other disruptive behavior is endemic. This deprives other children of their right to learn. Some people have a mad desire for a certain spurious and damaging equality. Equality must be about meeting and where possible raising peoples' potential. It must not, in the manner of Kurt Vonnegut's short story Harrison Bergeron (not sure whether short story names are underlined) be about dragging down higher-functioning people. In the story, people were "handicapped" so that they could not excel:In my third, fourth and fifth grades, corresponding to academic years 1965-6, 1966-7 and 1967-8 there was "tracking." Better students were placed separately from medium students. Lower-level students, but in general not remedial, were in a separate class. I distinctly remember that a few students were raised through the year, in one case the student starting at 4-2 and rising to 4-0 by around February.
Grades 6, 7 and 8 were not tracked. They were a nightmare. I had to tolerate having chewing gum placed in my hair. Why? The student's parents were going through a divorce. The behavioral problems in inner-city schools would be immeasurably worse.
We'd be better off as a society of students were encouraged to excel, not to "veg." And I should note that I am a very liberal Democrat.
When I went to high school, many decades ag0, the public schools had 2 curriculum, academic and general.
Academic was for those who wanted to go on to college. and took college entry courses like Algebra, I and II and chemistry, a foreign language, etc.
I think that oversimplifies what is meant by “hard work doesn’t lead to a better life style”.
The American dream of being poor and working your way up the ladder is what is dying. The middle class feels stuck, the working poor feel stuck, heck upper middle feels stuck. You take on more jobs, do more work, more education and barely move up the ladder. That is what I think people mean by that statement.
Personally I do think individual hard work in our current big corporate system does not equate to better outcomes for most people. You really have to sacrifice everything from family to any personal time and devote it all to your job to get slightly ahead. That leads to burnout after a while and after 40 if you haven’t made it in that system your chances of making it start to fade.
Also many workers feel that the extra work get noticed but it just leads to more work with no payoff in the end. It’s the carrot on a stick, the promise of better pay/job without ever getting the payout. We can barely get wages to move with super low unemployment which means people are working but are not gaining ground.
Add to that the constant record breaking in the stock market which can make people feel like everyone is having a party except them as most Americans have no investments outside of a underfunded 401k. It’s the best of times and the worse of times these days.
"The American dream of being poor and working your way up the ladder is what is dying."
I strongly disagree. America is STILL the greatest country in the world for advancement. IF you apply yourself.
Today MORE poor blacks from the urban areas ARE finishing high school and going on to college then in the past.
I think that oversimplifies what is meant by “hard work doesn’t lead to a better life style”.
The American dream of being poor and working your way up the ladder is what is dying. The middle class feels stuck, the working poor feel stuck, heck upper middle feels stuck. You take on more jobs, do more work, more education and barely move up the ladder. That is what I think people mean by that statement.
Personally I do think individual hard work in our current big corporate system does not equate to better outcomes for most people. You really have to sacrifice everything from family to any personal time and devote it all to your job to get slightly ahead. That leads to burnout after a while and after 40 if you haven’t made it in that system your chances of making it start to fade.
Also many workers feel that the extra work get noticed but it just leads to more work with no payoff in the end. It’s the carrot on a stick, the promise of better pay/job without ever getting the payout. We can barely get wages to move with super low unemployment which means people are working but are not gaining ground.
Add to that the constant record breaking in the stock market which can make people feel like everyone is having a party except them as most Americans have no investments outside of a underfunded 401k. It’s the best of times and the worse of times these days.
"The middle class feels stuck, the working poor feel stuck, heck upper middle feels stuck."
It never ceases to amaze me how so many on here THINK they know what everybody else knows and thinks. WITHOUT even asking them.
I happen to know a LOT of middle class and upper middle and NONE feel they are "stuck."
If everybody is so "stuck", explain "The numbers: Builders began construction on new homes in the U.S. at a pace of 1.37 million in November, the Commerce Department said Tuesday. This represented a 3.2% increase from a revised 1.32 million in October and was 13.6% higher than a year ago."
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/new-home-construction-activity-continues-to-rise-as-builders-seek-even-more-building-permits-2019-12-17"
Existing home sales has been going up for YEARS.
Last edited by Quick Enough; 01-24-2020 at 06:12 AM..
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