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Men can wear condoms, and they are highly effective in preventing pregnancy. It's just that a lot of men don't want to strap on one.
Depends on your definition of highly effective...
Per CDC over the course of a year 18% failure of "strapped on condoms" I've never strapped one on, I've kind of rolled it down, but I'm sure there are stores that cater for strapped on condoms.
Withdrawal is 22% by comparison
Calendar methods 24%
As measured per contraceptive use from unintended pregnancies, so real world, not lab.
So condoms are only 4% more reliable than withdrawal and 6% than calendar, I think we'd agree withdrawal and calendar are not effective. Even the good old and venerable diaphragm is 6% more effective (and the least effective female only contraceptive).
Would you like to reconsider? Because if you think 18% is effective, would you cross the road if you had an 18% annual chance of being run over? I wouldn't. That's close to a 1 in 5 chance every year.
Still doesn't eliminate that women choose to have kids, they firstly choose to have sex, choose to use less effective methods (just because the guy is wearing a condom doesn't absolve the woman of protecting themselves too), choose to carry to term, and choose to keep it.
Guys choose to have sex and choose to wear a condom, end of story on male kids choice.
Per CDC over the course of a year 18% failure of "strapped on condoms"
So? If I were a man, I'd rather use a condom than not use one.
How much sense does it make to say, "Ok, there's an 18% failure rate so I won't bother with it."
Here is a typical scenario: A man refuses to use a condom, the woman gets pregnant, and then the man says, "She tricked me! It's not fair!"
How adult is this, really, to feel this way? You as a man are responsible for your body, you are responsible for using protection and you are responsible for knowing the person you sleep with.
But men will continue to make all kinds of excuses so they don't have to wear that rubber.
So? If I were a man, I'd rather use a condom than not use one.
How much sense does it make to say, "Ok, there's an 18% failure rate so I won't bother with it."
Here is a typical scenario: A man refuses to use a condom, the woman gets pregnant, and then the man says, "She tricked me! It's not fair!"
How adult is this, really, to feel this way? You as a man are responsible for your body, you are responsible for using protection and you are responsible for knowing the person you sleep with.
Don't deflect, you're raising an entirely different point.
You are the person who claimed it was highly effective. I chose vasectomy in preference to condoms at 25 (6 years after I first attempted it) because I seriously did not want kids, nor did I want to risk having kids with your vaunted highly effective form of contraception. I still used condoms until I was in a stable relationship for STD protection, but not contraception.
What I'm pointing out (and seemingly making you squirm mightily) is that WOMEN have better contraceptive choices, better choices after impregnation, and can only themselves be responsible for becoming parents. You can't seriously blame men for women becoming parents when men have two options (abstain, and condoms) and women have the options of abstinence, myriad contraceptives with higher success rates, emergency contraception, adoption and termination.
Back to my original point to become a SAHM, a SAHM CHOSE to not abstain, chose to not use contraception (or permitted the man to enter without a raincoat), chose to not use emergency contraception (if contraception was not used), chose to not terminate and chose not to give up for adoption, then chose to remain at home and not pursue her career.
That's six or seven (if emergency contraception was needed but not used) confirmatory choices. So you cannot seriously expect me to believe that SAHM are victims of males can you?
I can empty my bank account and blow it at a casino and make fewer confirmatory choices, poor me, give me back my money, I was robbed I tells ya.
Does that sound ridiculous? Of course it does, which is why its equally ridiculous to say that a woman does not have the final decision to have kids. Just prima facie she has sole and single choice to not return to work, not give up for adoption, not abort, not use emergency contraception, not use contraception, and to have sex in the first place. Those are all her choices, welcome to the 21st Century.
So, should men get paid for all the time they spend maintaining the house? Mowing the grass? Repairing cars? etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gg
Yeah pay me for mowing the lawn, trimming trees, shoveling snow, gutting my kitchen, putting in two bathrooms, cleaning gutters, spreading gravel. Man, who is going to pay me for that though?
What a moronic article, but it is a sign of the times.
Where does that leave men who live in apartments and use public transportation? What is their unpaid worth?
So? If I were a man, I'd rather use a condom than not use one.
How much sense does it make to say, "Ok, there's an 18% failure rate so I won't bother with it."
Here is a typical scenario: A man refuses to use a condom, the woman gets pregnant, and then the man says, "She tricked me! It's not fair!"
How adult is this, really, to feel this way? You as a man are responsible for your body, you are responsible for using protection and you are responsible for knowing the person you sleep with.
But men will continue to make all kinds of excuses so they don't have to wear that rubber.
I dont think that is the issue here.
I'm going out on a limb and assume, accidents withstanding, couples discuss and plan how many children they are going to produce and when. The entire premise of this topic is that couples, ultimately women, are choosing to both have children later in life and have fewer children if any.
One reason for this is that more and more women are choosing a job/career where they actually get paid and have some financial security in case of divorce or early death of their spouse. Some women find themselves pushed into being a SAHM due to high cost and availability of childcare or find that trying to work and being expected to do most the parenting and household obligations is too stressful and overwhelming. And some women jump at the opportunity to be SAHMs. But overall the fertility rate is declining and more women are joining the workforce.
Where does that leave men who live in apartments and use public transportation? What is their unpaid worth?
I laugh when I see those arguments. I believe it was this thread I asked men to put a price on it like whoever put a price on the obligations women normally take care of.
Having raised my kids as a single working parent (widowed) I know people can and do all those unpaid jobs from cooking to mowing, changing oil to laundry, helping with homework to chauffeuring to school, ball games, scouts. But as has been shown in our traditional gender roles the work women do is daily and never ending while those chores men do are seasonal or sporadic. Even today with more egalitarian relationships women spend more hours a day doing unpaid domestic duties.
I never got paid to cut the grass or shovel the snow, who knew!
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastwardBound
I need to climb up on the roof and clean out the gutters later. How much will that get me?
Did you/do you do it every day, every week. Did those things prevent you from working a paying full time job, getting a promotion, a pay raise, paying into retirement?
I have three examples within the past 5 years at my work.
Couple 1 both work at my business. Make same salary. Baby 1, she takes off one year works from home some. Baby 2&3 (twins) she takes off a couple months then goes part time (no raises, no promotions, no benefits).
Employee 2. Married, husband finally gets good job making roughly same pay. Baby 1, she takes off 6 weeks maternity. Baby 2, asks for raise, nope, husband has gotten raise, they decide she will quit due to daycare cost and stress.
Employee 3. Opps pregnancy, they already have a 16 year old. Make same pay. No affordable daycare available. She quits due to no job flexibility.
Boss told me he did not want them as employees because they would be taking off work all the time due to kids needs same as employee #1 and would not be available to go in field (even though they could).
Now is mowing the grass, cleaning the gutters and shoveling snow that employment debilitating ?
Did you/do you do it every day, every week. Did those things prevent you from working a paying full time job, getting a promotion, a pay raise, paying into retirement?
I have three examples within the past 5 years at my work.
Couple 1 both work at my business. Make same salary. Baby 1, she takes off one year works from home some. Baby 2&3 (twins) she takes off a couple months then goes part time (no raises, no promotions, no benefits).
Employee 2. Married, husband finally gets good job making roughly same pay. Baby 1, she takes off 6 weeks maternity. Baby 2, asks for raise, nope, husband has gotten raise, they decide she will quit due to daycare cost and stress.
Employee 3. Opps pregnancy, they already have a 16 year old. Make same pay. No affordable daycare available. She quits due to no job flexibility.
Boss told me he did not want them as employees because they would be taking off work all the time due to kids needs same as employee #1 and would not be available to go in field (even though they could).
Now is mowing the grass, cleaning the gutters and shoveling snow that employment debilitating ?
I highly doubt the argument you presented has anything to do with the posts you replied to.
We all do unpaid work in some way shape or form, obviously there are only 24 hours in a day, and if you are away for 10 of those hours doing or travelling to/from you paid employment, your capacity for doing unpaid work becomes reduced.
My wife and I tried the two full time jobs with 2 kids in full time day care for 6 months, and I think we are both very glad it is over. You hardly get to see your kids at all, and have zero free time to do anything that might be considered fun or play, teaching to cook/play sport/ a music instrument etc, things within itself are also debilitating.
This is stupid logic. There's a service for practically anything that I can do for myself. So if I do something for myself, then I'm working for free? Only idiots think this way.
I highly doubt the argument you presented has anything to do with the posts you replied to.
We all do unpaid work in some way shape or form, obviously there are only 24 hours in a day, and if you are away for 10 of those hours doing or travelling to/from you paid employment, your capacity for doing unpaid work becomes reduced.
My wife and I tried the two full time jobs with 2 kids in full time day care for 6 months, and I think we are both very glad it is over. You hardly get to see your kids at all, and have zero free time to do anything that might be considered fun or play, teaching to cook/play sport/ a music instrument etc, things within itself are also debilitating.
Really, why not.
The original article this thread is based on and more importantly the study the article is loosely based on explores inequities in global wealth. One aspect is lost wealth due to women's unearned income. That women not in the workforce but providing future workers benefits most those at the high end of the wealth spectrum. Women much more so than me end up being the one out of the workforce or much reduced production due to the unpaid work of caring for children.
The care involved on a daily 24/7 365 basis is reason for the reduced paid work.
The posts was comparing that unpaid work to that which men generally do, like mowing the lawn, changing oil in the car, shoveling snow, home improvements.
Yes we all do unpaid work around our homes and in caring for our children but who is it that generally exits that full time job due to those responsibilities?
What happened with you and your wife after 6 months?
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