USA Today: Women's pay could soar if they were paid for tasks they do free. $1.4 trillion of unpaid labor
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Both men and women, husbands/wives, mothers/fathers labor whether in the workplace or at home or both.
The article was not about men's labors.
It was about the fact that it is women who give up (majority) paying jobs in order to do the unpaid labors of child rearing. That the majority of unpaid labor is done by women.
You want to acknowledge mens unpaid labor and how it affects wealth and fertility rates, great, start a thread.
You are not the OP either, it is this part of the OP'S first post i am talking about.
"I think males and females should be treated equally, but the media seems to be fixated of women."
You are not the OP either, it is this part of the OP'S first post i am talking about.
"I think males and females should be treated equally, but the media seems to be fixated of women."
I'm not sure why the OP linked an article not relevant to the rant.
The fact is as far as the topic of unpaid work related to the article men and women are not treated equally as it is women who are expected to forgo paying work, not men, (OP: It's not realistic to expect men to stay at home in most circumstances either and care for the children as men in general are not happy without work.) and do more unpaid work even when they hold full time outside jobs. The OP is correct however in that women are finding that overwhelming, thus the decline in fertility rates.
As far as programs being discussed to help with daycare and student loans well it not just for women. For every child in need of daycare there are two parents (usually) a man and a woman.
These are real issues that affect FAMILIES.
You seeing the inequity when people make this a woman issue instead of a family issue. Why is it only the mother is affected by child rearing issues? Last time I checked it took both male and female to produce a child.
Personally, I dont care. How a couple decides to split parenting/working responsibilities is a personal choice. What I find interesting is that women are making that choice and more and more are choosing not to having children or have fewer children. And people complain when women don't work, when women get assistance (not men) (subsidized daycare, maternity leave, etc.) so they can work, they complain women are working instead of staying home to take care of THEIR children, and now complaining that women are not reproducing enough.
And yet we need to talk about men's unpaid work and career sacrifices (mowing the law, shoveling snow, changing the oil, rebuilding a motor, some home remodeling).
Do you want to talk about why more men are not becoming SAHDs, or going part time, taking lower paying flexible jobs to accommodate child care issues and how this affects their overall income/earning potential/retirement, especially if the marriage ends (death or divorce) and how this affects their decision to have children and How men are having difficulty finding and affording daycare or needing student loan forgiveness.
I'm not sure why the OP linked an article not relevant to the rant.
The fact is as far as the topic of unpaid work related to the article men and women are not treated equally as it is women who are expected to forgo paying work, not men, (OP: It's not realistic to expect men to stay at home in most circumstances either and care for the children as men in general are not happy without work.) and do more unpaid work even when they hold full time outside jobs. The OP is correct however in that women are finding that overwhelming, thus the decline in fertility rates.
As far as programs being discussed to help with daycare and student loans well it not just for women. For every child in need of daycare there are two parents (usually) a man and a woman.
These are real issues that affect FAMILIES.
You seeing the inequity when people make this a woman issue instead of a family issue. Why is it only the mother is affected by child rearing issues? Last time I checked it took both male and female to produce a child.
Personally, I dont care. How a couple decides to split parenting/working responsibilities is a personal choice. What I find interesting is that women are making that choice and more and more are choosing not to having children or have fewer children. And people complain when women don't work, when women get assistance (not men) (subsidized daycare, maternity leave, etc.) so they can work, they complain women are working instead of staying home to take care of THEIR children, and now complaining that women are not reproducing enough.
And yet we need to talk about men's unpaid work and career sacrifices (mowing the law, shoveling snow, changing the oil, rebuilding a motor, some home remodeling).
Do you want to talk about why more men are not becoming SAHDs, or going part time, taking lower paying flexible jobs to accommodate child care issues and how this affects their overall income/earning potential/retirement, especially if the marriage ends (death or divorce) and how this affects their decision to have children and How men are having difficulty finding and affording daycare or needing student loan forgiveness.
The unpaid work gap, is more a function of the paid work gap than anything else. Forget the feminist notion that women are expected to do all the unpaid work and hold a full time job at the same time. That is just using across the board averages ignoring the employment status of the person. Study after study on statistical data show that if you combine the total paid and unpaid work performed by both sexes when employed full time, the total comes up almost exactly even. Here in Australia the total its 52.2 hours a week for men and 52.9 hours a week for women, which is a gap of 5 minutes a day.
The only age at which the total paid/unpaid work gap becomes significantly more for women is for those over 65, who are far more likely to come under the more traditional working dad/stay at home mum scenario, and at that age of course, the kids are usually gone, and dads retired.
Across the board for every adult in this country the total paid and unpaid work burden of men is 46.2 hours for men vs 43.6 hours for women, with men doing 9.5 hours more paid work and women 6.7 hours more unpaid.
Personally i have never heard anyone complain about women having fewer children, choosing work/not to work etc, so I will have leave it at that, though i would certainly not support anyone who said such things.
However yes i think the reason why more men are not becoming stay at home dads, is something we as a society need to talk about more. Personally i am not in the least bit worried, about the affects my decision to stay at home and work part time (I also stayed at home full time for 18 months with our daughter who is now 6) will have on my income earning capacity, retirement income or divorce etc. If my wife dies we have insurance to cover it. Our money continues to be deposited into a single joint account for us to share like it always has (how 1950's of us), and if anything my part time work has made our marriage stronger, because we have far more time for each other and the children.
As for stay at home dads, I live in Australia so naturally, we have an entirely different government support system for working parents than you have in the USA. To me the biggest problem seems not to be the financial impact of the decision, but the stigma associated with it.
Now most people are very nice that is for sure, however there are always women who don't like men in the parents room, come up to you in the park rather sheepishly, and ask you if the girl you are looking after is indeed you child. I had to confirm 4 times with government that i had filled my application for assistance out correctly, the list goes on. Just last week I went to my daughters school to get them to change over the principle contact regarding our daughters affairs from my wife's to my name. The process ended up with me having to get my daughter out of class, call my wife and get her in the office every one to confirm that its all correct, and get the forms signed in the presence of a witness.
A local dads group dropped of a pamphlet at our sons (who is 1) daycare center last week also, which among other things said it would provide "A safe place to share no shaming" which as far a i am concerned is just sad, and even worse i not willing to take one for fear it might be associated with a misogynist hate group.
I am sure we will all agree, that it would be beneficial for women if men were encouraged to take more responsibility with children. However the feminist movement and society seem to be doing the complete opposite, by spreading words such a rape culture, mansplaining etc and painting a general picture than men simply cannot be trusted.
You hardly ever see a male primary school teacher theses days, and they are practically non existent in daycare centers. Even my own wife has stated several times she does not want a strange man looking after our kids, even if that man happens to be employed by the daycare center.
It just seems to me that society is bent on making dads who loves and want to look after kids out as some kind of criminal, and until that changes men will continue to shun working with children.
Last edited by danielsa1775; 02-06-2020 at 06:08 PM..
If only I could find someone to pay me to cook my own meals, wash my own clothing, clean my own house and wipe my buttocks I would be in high cotton. Some things you do because it is YOUR LIFE. The idea of compensation for doing basic household tasks is laughable. If you are doing it for your family ask the hubby for it.
The unpaid work gap, is more a function of the paid work gap than anything else. Forget the feminist notion that women are expected to do all the unpaid work and hold a full time job at the same time. That is just using across the board averages ignoring the employment status of the person. Study after study on statistical data show that if you combine the total paid and unpaid work performed by both sexes when employed full time, the total comes up almost exactly even. Here in Australia the total its 52.2 hours a week for men and 52.9 hours a week for women, which is a gap of 5 minutes a day.
The only age at which the total paid/unpaid work gap becomes significantly more for women is for those over 65, who are far more likely to come under the more traditional working dad/stay at home mum scenario, and at that age of course, the kids are usually gone, and dads retired.
Across the board for every adult in this country the total paid and unpaid work burden of men is 46.2 hours for men vs 43.6 hours for women, with men doing 9.5 hours more paid work and women 6.7 hours more unpaid.
Personally i have never heard anyone complain about women having fewer children, choosing work/not to work etc, so I will have leave it at that, though i would certainly not support anyone who said such things.
However yes i think the reason why more men are not becoming stay at home dads, is something we as a society need to talk about more. Personally i am not in the least bit worried, about the affects my decision to stay at home and work part time (I also stayed at home full time for 18 months with our daughter who is now 6) will have on my income earning capacity, retirement income or divorce etc. If my wife dies we have insurance to cover it. Our money continues to be deposited into a single joint account for us to share like it always has (how 1950's of us), and if anything my part time work has made our marriage stronger, because we have far more time for each other and the children.
As for stay at home dads, I live in Australia so naturally, we have an entirely different government support system for working parents than you have in the USA. To me the biggest problem seems not to be the financial impact of the decision, but the stigma associated with it.
Now most people are very nice that is for sure, however there are always women who don't like men in the parents room, come up to you in the park rather sheepishly, and ask you if the girl you are looking after is indeed you child. I had to confirm 4 times with government that i had filled my application for assistance out correctly, the list goes on. Just last week I went to my daughters school to get them to change over the principle contact regarding our daughters affairs from my wife's to my name. The process ended up with me having to get my daughter out of class, call my wife and get her in the office every one to confirm that its all correct, and get the forms signed in the presence of a witness.
A local dads group dropped of a pamphlet at our sons (who is 1) daycare center last week also, which among other things said it would provide "A safe place to share no shaming" which as far a i am concerned is just sad, and even worse i not willing to take one for fear it might be associated with a misogynist hate group.
I am sure we will all agree, that it would be beneficial for women if men were encouraged to take more responsibility with children. However the feminist movement and society seem to be doing the complete opposite, by spreading words such a rape culture, mansplaining etc and painting a general picture than men simply cannot be trusted.
You hardly ever see a male primary school teacher theses days, and they are practically non existent in daycare centers. Even my own wife has stated several times she does not want a strange man looking after our kids, even if that man happens to be employed by the daycare center.
It just seems to me that society is bent on making dads who loves and want to look after kids out as some kind of criminal, and until that changes men will continue to shun working with children.
I dont know the stats for Australia but its more of a 2. something hours a day. I think, not sure Id have to look at the study again, the unpaid work gap was a global number in the study.
You may not have heard personally but there have been all kind of alarming articles and the sky is falling due to the global decrease in fertility rates. It is a fact that fertility rates are falling and more women are joining the workforce at least here in the states. It seems our systems are much different. Daycare is expensive and generally not subsidized by the government nor is there any government mandated paid maternity leave.
Most people can not continue to raise a family and pay bills on life insurance money. I'm glad you have such a generous policy. My spouse died in 1984. We had 15K life policy at the time. In hind site it wasnt enough but most people dont have enough coverage. Many part time jobs do not have benefits such as insurance or retirement and SS is based on what you have earned over your lifetime. Being out of the workforce for extended periods put ones behind in a competitive job market.
If only I could find someone to pay me to cook my own meals, wash my own clothing, clean my own house and wipe my buttocks I would be in high cotton. Some things you do because it is YOUR LIFE. The idea of compensation for doing basic household tasks is laughable. If you are doing it for your family ask the hubby for it.
Again, the article nor study it was based on suggests people actually get paid for doing things for themselves.
The USA headline is deceiving. Try reading the article even better the study they based it on.
$1.4 trillion unpaid cooking, cleaning and caring for children according to Oxfam
I think males and females should be treated equally, but the media seems to be fixated of women.
Why don't they just admit that a majority of working mothers are completely overwhelmed by the modern lifestyle.
It's very evident that a majority of working mothers are very, very overwhelmed and the media and Democrats are feeding into the desperation by promising and manipulating into supporting lots of social programs to make the stress of working mother in 2020 better.
I am all for women in the workforce but it's obvious that their health collapses from 40 hours a week of work.
Why don't they just admit that the 2020 working full-time plus some mother lifestyle is causing a tremendous amount of stress and isn't good for women, men or society.
It's not realistic to expect men to stay at home in most circumstances either and care for the children as men in general are not happy without work.
Today, it's $1.4 trillion in free cleaning, cleaning and caring for children. 4 days ago it was the cost to give birth.
Every day, there is many stories on free daycare, student loan forgiveness because an overwhelming majority of graduates are women so they naturally owe a vast majority of the debt.
good question. I wonder just how many years it takes for women's health to collapse from working 40 hour weeks. I've been doing it for 30 years if you subtract the years I worked part time while attending school, the 2 months I was laid off, and what time I took off for maternity leave.
I dont know the stats for Australia but its more of a 2. something hours a day. I think, not sure Id have to look at the study again, the unpaid work gap was a global number in the study.
You may not have heard personally but there have been all kind of alarming articles and the sky is falling due to the global decrease in fertility rates. It is a fact that fertility rates are falling and more women are joining the workforce at least here in the states. It seems our systems are much different. Daycare is expensive and generally not subsidized by the government nor is there any government mandated paid maternity leave.
Most people can not continue to raise a family and pay bills on life insurance money. I'm glad you have such a generous policy. My spouse died in 1984. We had 15K life policy at the time. In hind site it wasnt enough but most people dont have enough coverage. Many part time jobs do not have benefits such as insurance or retirement and SS is based on what you have earned over your lifetime. Being out of the workforce for extended periods put ones behind in a competitive job market.
We have compulsory pension system in Australia (Called superannuation), which about 95% of employed persons pay into regardless of their employment status, (Its deduced from your salary). The Life insurance comes with which ever pension fund you choose, and is deducted from the money you put into it. The government pay 50% of you child care costs, its still very expensive however, we were paying about $80US a day for our kids after the government paid the first 50%.
In 2020 you can read an article about virtually anything if you look hard enough, I do my best to ignore media, or a least treat it with a good deal of skepticism.
Both contribute to the household. By either labor, financial support, or a blend of both.
In a hypothetical situation in which one spouse is 100% working and the other is 100% keeping the home, one is contributing financially the other is contributing through their labor. If the later got paid by the other spouse for their labor, then they are not contributing to the household at all.... they aren't a family member.. they are "help"/"staff".
If both spouses work (assuming they know how to living within their means), they are both contributing financially. It makes sense to outsource some of the responsibilities of household keep so that neither are overwhelmed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovecrowds
It's not realistic to expect men to stay at home in most circumstances either and care for the children as men in general are not happy without work.
I think this is a myth based on stereotypes and social pressures. There are plenty of women who are not happy just being a house wife/mother (plenty of women entering the workforce). There are plenty of men who would be happy staying at home (my neighbor is one of them). Part of the issue is society judging people for not fitting into gender roles....
My wife and I agreed on two children; 1st one she stays home and the 2nd I stay home. I never got my chance. Why? Because I chose to aggressively work to raise my income... long hours.. two jobs.. night shifts... climbing the ladder.. putting up with less than desirable positions. She chose to work only jobs she would enjoy; passing up and leaving numerous jobs that paid significantly better. When it was my turn, She insisted that her salary alone couldn't support the family while mine could plus more.... "lucky me... "
Last edited by usayit; 02-07-2020 at 04:35 PM..
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