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Old 01-29-2020, 08:11 AM
 
Location: Florida
76,946 posts, read 47,255,988 times
Reputation: 14758

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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastwardBound View Post
Because many of those people are not taking personal responsibility for their own financial actions, so of course it isn't working for them.
Again, everyone knows there are irresponsible people. No one denies that. It is the nature of certain type of people.

Is telling them to be more responsible a 'solution'. Of course not.

However, we have people like Rachel and few other pseudo-conservatives who insist is it the ONLY possible reason, which replaces reality with a talking point. It gives the the opportunity to judge and point fingers, but solves nothing. It only gives them the opportunity feel like they are better than others, and they deserve a cell phone and a meal at Applebee's while saying others don't deserve it. Its a weird mindset.

As I said, studies show the #1 reason for peoples inability to save is the rapidly rising cost to basic big-ticket items like housing, child care, education, health care etc. That is by far the biggest reason, and there are suggestions to how to improve some of those problems.
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Old 01-29-2020, 08:13 AM
 
Location: Florida
76,946 posts, read 47,255,988 times
Reputation: 14758
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel976 View Post
It would be nice to conduct this study by income and find out what percent of people earning more than $50,000 have nothing in savings but DO have expensive IPhones.......
Yes, it would be nice because they you'd have something to back up your personal opinions which you currently try to pass as facts.
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Old 01-29-2020, 08:13 AM
 
7,827 posts, read 3,349,202 times
Reputation: 5141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel976 View Post
Exactly! The responsible savers will be punished, and the irresponsible spenders will be rewarded.

Just wait. One of these days, a liberal will have the "solution" to the SS problem: let's restrict SS to people who really need it, those with minimal savings. Those who have $500,000 in investments (or whatever number they come up) or more can do without.

What they omit is that the people with $500,000 in investments did so by buying a house LESS than that for which they qualified, buy less expensive cell phones, do not buy a brand-new car every 5 or 6 years, and so forth - while those who ended up with little to no savings DID overextend themselves on a house and splurged on every little doo-dad around will collect SS benefits.
Yes, putting off instant gratification for longer-term goals. Most of us have probably been 'poor' at one point, but we understand that accumulating wealth takes time. My partner and I now make a good income because we've been in our fields for years. At 40, we are now in a position to take our trips, buy what we want for our houses, etc. We also sometimes make sacrifices to pay our two 15 year mortgages, knowing that in 12 years, we will have both homes paid off and will have a wider array of choices, and hopefully, still many years left.
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Old 01-29-2020, 08:17 AM
 
Location: Florida
76,946 posts, read 47,255,988 times
Reputation: 14758
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel976 View Post
Yeah, and what percent of that population can't save $400 but has their credit cards up to the limit with Iphones, cruises, and expensive dinners out? THAT is what we are saying.
No, you are not asking how many of them spend all their money Iphones, cruises, and expensive dinners. you are claiming ALL of them do. That is why your view is hyper-narrow.
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Old 01-29-2020, 08:20 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,617 posts, read 44,324,456 times
Reputation: 13538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Again, everyone knows there are irresponsible people. No one denies that. It is the nature of certain type of people.

Is telling them to be more responsible a 'solution'. Of course not.

However, we have people like Rachel and few other pseudo-conservatives who insist is it the ONLY possible reason
That's an outright lie. I've seen her post several times that a portion of that 40%, the very low-income, very likely are legitimately struggling and truly cannot save $400.

But as I've pointed out, even those among the upper class overextend themselves, irresponsibly overspend, and end up either living paycheck to paycheck (no $400 in savings, not to mention overdrawn accounts) or have to file bankruptcy. Financial irresponsibility isn't limited to only certain socioeconomic levels.
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Old 01-29-2020, 08:25 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
30,702 posts, read 79,413,686 times
Reputation: 39425
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
Really? We owed less in taxes last year. Significantly less in fact.
We apparently fell into the "narrow window" of people who pay more. It keeps getting worse. I got a raise and had to have them take all of the added money out of my check as taxes. We still owed more. My paychecks went back to 2015 amounts. (yet we still owe more money this year).
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Old 01-29-2020, 08:25 AM
 
7,827 posts, read 3,349,202 times
Reputation: 5141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
No, you are not asking how many of them spend all their money Iphones, cruises, and expensive dinners. you are claiming ALL of them do. That is why your view is hyper-narrow.
I know what I am arguing, and from what I can see, what Rachel and others are arguing, is that wasting money frivolously is a PORTION of the problem, across all incomes.

Yes, some people are truly needy and need help, but many others are not and do not - it's more of a systemic cultural issue than anything else, with the need to buy more stuff and live a luxurious life, even before one can naturally afford to do so because of job experience/income, wealth accumulation, etc.
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Old 01-29-2020, 08:30 AM
 
Location: Florida
76,946 posts, read 47,255,988 times
Reputation: 14758
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastwardBound View Post
No one is saying that buying iPhones is the ONLY problem. Of course, there are systemic issues in expensive places, limiting people's ability to save. They can however, relocate to a place that is less expensive and many of those people are also buying iPhones, Starbucks, etc.
Trust me, lot of people who struggle would never buy an iPhone or go to Starbucks, because they can barely pay for their home, daycare, healthcare, college loans, food and other necessities. You think people have 2-3 jobs just so they can by a $1000 iPhone?
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Old 01-29-2020, 08:30 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,617 posts, read 44,324,456 times
Reputation: 13538
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastwardBound View Post
Yes, putting off instant gratification for longer-term goals. Most of us have probably been 'poor' at one point, but we understand that accumulating wealth takes time. My partner and I now make a good income because we've been in our fields for years. At 40, we are now in a position to take our trips, buy what we want for our houses, etc. We also sometimes make sacrifices to pay our two 15 year mortgages, knowing that in 12 years, we will have both homes paid off and will have a wider array of choices, and hopefully, still many years left.
I paid off the 15 year mortgage on the home I'm in now 8 years and 9 months early (make SURE your mortgage doesn't have a prepayment penalty!), just with ordinary everyday income I didn't need to spend on $$$ lattes (I make my own at home), eating out (I love to cook!), and my everyday driver (car) is a 2004 that I keep in great condition. I actually epitomize 'The Millionaire Next Door.' No one would ever guess my net worth.
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Old 01-29-2020, 08:32 AM
 
7,827 posts, read 3,349,202 times
Reputation: 5141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Trust me, lot of people who struggle would never buy an iPhone or go to Starbucks, because they can barely pay for their home, daycare, healthcare, college loans, food and other necessities. You think people have 2-3 jobs just so they can by a $1000 iPhone?
Finn, your argument is that most of this issue of people not having $400 in savings is because of systemic issues in our system. Is that fair to say?

Let's say that is true, and I do believe there are of course, systemic problems, then what do you propose to address the problem? Would love to hear a few points, which we can all move on to do discuss.
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