Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
They subpoenaed McGhan in April 2019 as part of the Mueller investigation, Trump is still appealing in the courts. Fighting this in the courts would have easily gone into 2021 well after the election.
Due process kids, it isn't supposed to make it easier for prosecutors, only defendants.
Understand that one of the two central arguments the House is making, in their "defense of the soul of the Republic", is that due process needs to be discarded entirely if it annoys or delays the prosecution of someone they want jammed up legally. If the person is unpopular in the media, due process needs tossed out a window, guilt is assumed and innocence must be proven instead...AFTER the accused has been destroyed/fired/marginalized/ruined/whatever.
I DON'T CARE ABOUT TRUMP. What I do care about is due process, presumption of innocence and the burden (a serious, heavy, annoying, taxing, exhausting burden at that) of proof resting with the accuser, not the accused. If the McGhan subpoena is still in the courts...SO BE IT. Due process takes time. It doesn't get discarded based on inefficiency.
And so what if it goes past the election? Due process now gets discarded because of elections? Really?
Clinton's investigation went across his reelection in 1996. It spanned almost 5 years in fact. Did we suspend due process for Clinton in 1996 because it might interfere with Bob Dole and Ross Perot's chances? Nope, the investigation continued at the slow ass pace it was always run with.
If there is a history of corruption in Ukraine then I would love to hear it, right now its just a Trump fantasy. Why didn't the EU or World Bank hold up money for this so called obvious corruption, why did the DOD certify funds for release after Ukraine was in compliance, what was the substance of Ukraine's actions that allowed the release of funds in September.
Nobody is really that uninformed are they? Just for a start-you do realize that Great Britain had an active corruption investigation of Burisma going on at the time Hunter was hired, don't you? That GB had frozen Burisma assets? And that Ukraine has a reputation as one of the most corrupt nations in the world?
Last edited by Toyman at Jewel Lake; 01-29-2020 at 09:25 AM..
Nobody is really that uninformed are they? Just for a start-you do realize that Great Britain had an active corruption investigation of Burisma going on at the time Hunter was hired, don't you? And that Ukraine has a reputation as one of the most corrupt nations in the world?
We don't want the US to be corrupt also, correct?
We should make certain trump isn't also committing corrupt actions!
Due process kids, it isn't supposed to make it easier for prosecutors, only defendants.
Understand that one of the two central arguments the House is making, in their "defense of the soul of the Republic", is that due process needs to be discarded entirely if it annoys or delays the prosecution of someone they want jammed up legally. If the person is unpopular in the media, due process needs tossed out a window, guilt is assumed and innocence must be proven instead...AFTER the accused has been destroyed/fired/marginalized/ruined/whatever.
I DON'T CARE ABOUT TRUMP. What I do care about is due process, presumption of innocence and the burden (a serious, heavy, annoying, taxing, exhausting burden at that) of proof resting with the accuser, not the accused. If the McGhan subpoena is still in the courts...SO BE IT. Due process takes time. It doesn't get discarded based on inefficiency.
And so what if it goes past the election? Due process now gets discarded because of elections? Really?
Clinton's investigation went across his reelection in 1996. It spanned almost 5 years in fact. Did we suspend due process for Clinton in 1996 because it might interfere with Bob Dole and Ross Perot's chances? Nope, the investigation continued at the slow ass pace it was always run with.
Nobody is really that uninformed are they? Just for a start-you do realize that Great Britain had an active corruption investigation of Burisma going on at the time Hunter was hired, don't you? And that Ukraine has a reputation as one of the most corrupt nations in the world?
How people don't understand that Ukraine is basically "sleazy Switzerland" for the global political class to launder money through...it baffles the mind, really.
Switzerland is where Old Money and Aristocracy Money launders their coin, and Caymans/Singapore/Hong Kong are where Mafia Money, Newer Money, Tech Money, and Slick Money launder their coin, and Ukraine is the Shady Politician Money and Global Mobster Money launderer.
No real shock why they refuse NATO and EU membership, and why NATO and the EU don't really press them on it. Same as Switzerland, just uglier and dirtier.
Let's cut through the real chase......the voters will possibly hear testimony under oath about how trump used tax paid money to bribe a country to discredit a campaign opponent and then lied about it.
How do you think the American people will like being used and lied to by a president who is supposed to uphold democracy and truth?
that's a nice story but that's not even what has been alleged.
ALL of the witnesses have admitted that
1. No person from the US communicated ANY plan or pressure on the Ukrainians.
2. The Ukrainians never knew about any such plan.
2. The Ukrainians never complied with any such request... that they likely never heard about
3. The Ukrainians received the money before the deadline.
So at best what you have is some version of a thought crime where maybe the president possibly talked thru some idea of linking this money to an investigation into Biden. The man that admitted to a quid pro quo on video and bragged about it.
I am willing to stipulate every single thing that is being reported about John Boltons view. It still doesn't rise to any version of a crime. period. facts are pesky things.
Demanding evidence and then charging the refusal to surrender his rights as President under Executive Privilege and his rights as a citizen under the 4th Amendment as obstruction, instead of taking the matter to the courts to decide whether he had to comply with a subpoena or not. That's top of the list.
when no lawyer from Trumps team was allowed to be part of the House investigation.
when the house refused to go to the courts to deal with legitimate, time honored separation of powers issues. when the democrat House investigators only allowed witnesses they thought would benefit their case. when they refused to allow Republicans to call witnesses. When they only published details of witnesses they felt bolstered their case. when they called opinions "facts". when they impeached the president for things that aren't actually against the law. i could go on for quite a while but ive made the point. Due process was denied. repeatedly.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
