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It already is used nationwide. And has been for decades. Terry v. Ohio held that the practice didn't violate the Constitution.
So nine employees of the government got together, and eight of them decided its okay for armed government employees to stop and search any number of 300 million non government employees to see if they might be armed
So nine employees of the government got together, and eight of them decided its okay for armed government employees to stop and search any number of 300 million non government employees to see if they might be armed
So much for your constitution.
Do explain how the Supreme Court was wrong. What constitutional flaw did the justices commit some five decades ago
Also, the foundational purpose of Terry is that such a frisk would be authorized if the officers believe that a person is illegally armed (that was implied and is the only sensible reading of the law) or if officers believe you're legally or illegally armed when they have otherwise legally stopped you on reasonable suspicion of a crime (officer safety).
Do explain how the Supreme Court was wrong. What constitutional flaw did the justices commit some five decades ago
Also, the foundational purpose of Terry is that such a frisk would be authorized if the officers believe that a person is illegally armed (that was implied and is the only sensible reading of the law) or if officers believe you're legally or illegally armed when they have otherwise legally stopped you on reasonable suspicion of a crime (officer safety).
Im arguing the absurdity of such a system, not how the govt writes the rules and applies them to itself
In my post below, replace the word "government" with the Apple Corp., Verizon, Amazon, the NY Mets,etc. and tell me how accepting you'd be if they were randomly stoping people on the street and searching them?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest
So nine employees of the government got together, and eight of them decided its okay for armed government employees to stop and search any number of 300 million non government employees to see if they might be armed
So much for your constitution.
Point? Govrenment ID badges dont confer special powers or rights to its possessors that you or I dont have.
Given Michael Bloomberg's comments regarding who should be stopped and frisked, and Trump having said he supports Stop & Frisk (and called for it to be expanded nationwide), what do you think? Should it be expanded throughout the USA?
By the way, I will chime in, and I'm not holding back on what I say.
you don't have a "kind of" approach.
I think where you have very high crime in a concentrated area, S&F is one of a number of tools that might be useful.
I don't oppose profiling but again, only in certain circumstances where you have an area where a high crime rate is in a concentrated area. but what that looks like has to be defined and understood by community leaders.
I oppose the idea that things like this are a panacea. Tools are just that. specialized equipment to deal with certain problems. you don't use a hammer where a magnet will do the trick. you don't use a paper towel where a hammer is needed.
The issue is always the innocent people that are being mistreated. Whether they are the innocent people being plagued by criminals doing harm to them, or the innocent people that get caught up when the police use hammers as their only tool when other options are better.
Long term the real answer is creating opportunity for people in underserved areas. getting jobs to areas where there has traditionally been no hope is by far the answer to most of the problems we are talking about. But in certain very specific situations, for defined periods of time, with buy in from community leaders, something like S&F can be useful.
Firstly, that ruling was specific to NYC and has zero precedential value elsewhere. Secondly, the ruling was for an as applied challenge (in that it applies to a specific method of conducting stop and frisk) as the lower federal court judge couldn't overrule Supreme Court case law explicitly authorizing stop and frisk generally. Stop and frisk is still conducted in NYC and it remains legal throughout the country.
From the WSJ in November of last year:
Quote:
The New York Police Department has dramatically reduced its use of stop-and-frisk since 2011, but the controversial policing practice once promoted by former Mayor Michael Bloomberg still affects black and Latino New Yorkers at disproportionately high rates, a civil-rights group’s analysis of NYPD data shows.
Stop and frisk is very limited and used to find guns and keep police safe. It’s also used under some degree of suspicion. I’ve never been stopped and frisked mainly because I don’t engage in shady behavior.
Stop and frisk is very limited and used to find guns and keep police safe. It’s also used under some degree of suspicion. I’ve never been stopped and frisked mainly because I don’t engage in shady behavior.
Hey.... it doesn't impact NJJersey so it must be ok.
"The program became the subject of a racial profiling controversy. The vast majority, 90% in 2017, of those stopped were African-American or Latino, most of whom were aged 14–24. Furthermore, 70% of all those stopped were later found to be innocent.[1] By contrast, 54.1% of the population of New York City in 2010 was African-American or Latino;[2] however, 74.4% of individuals arrested overall were of those two racial groups."
70% of all those stopped were found to be innocent... 90% are minorities. I think 1) police aren't very good at using "a degree of suspicion.". and 2) just being a minority is enough to meet "a degree of suspicion".
Last edited by usayit; 02-14-2020 at 11:50 AM..
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