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You are applying contemporary viewpoints to a time frame in the past.
Wow, what an excellent point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bus man
Hindsight proved that the Japanese-Americans were not a threat to the United States. But this was not known at the time.
The vast majority were not, but some were.
If we had the surveillance apparatus we have now, no there'd be no need to intern persons with ethnic ties to a country at war against the US.
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverkris
Rubbish.
Your link to a Liberal rag disproves nothing I said.
The article is about misconduct in internment camps.
I merely mentioned Japanese-Americans were incarcerated. I made no statements regarding their treatment in those facilities.
I did mention it was wrong to confiscate their personal belongings, property and assets and even more wrong to compensate them for having their possessions confiscated without due process.
I'm curious, how many interred Japanese-Americans do you personally know? I know a few (one still living) and they were among the nicest people I've ever been had the pleasure of spending time with...and yes, they lost everything.
What does this have to do with the subject at hand? Most Japanese people from Japan are also very nice today, but that doesn't mean I would have trusted one if I happened to encounter one in 1942.
Had Japan won the Battle of Midway, then Japanese bombers would have been attacking targets in the Hawaiian Islands with the help of Japanese-Americans.
The next logical step would have been the invasion of the Hawaiian Islands, using Midway as a base, and then Japanese bombers would have been attacking California coastal areas with the help of Japanese-Americans.
Let me see if I have this right. So, the Japanese would first have mounted an amphibious attack on Hawaii across 1100 nautical miles of submarine-filled ocean, then conjured up the necessary long-range bombers to cover the 2000+ nautical miles from Hawaii to the US West Coast. Expending massive amounts of strategic resources in return for - what, exactly?
Imperial Japan's grand strategy was to establish the Greater East Asia Co-prosperity Sphere and park themselves firmly in command of Vietnam, Korea, Burma, the Philippines, Dutch East India (oil!), Singapore etc, etc. They had no interest in taking on the US beyond getting a free hand to do that.
Let me see if I have this right. So, the Japanese would first have mounted an amphibious attack on Hawaii across 1100 nautical miles of submarine-filled ocean, then conjured up the necessary long-range bombers to cover the 2000+ nautical miles from Hawaii to the US West Coast. Expending massive amounts of strategic resources in return for - what, exactly?
Imperial Japan's grand strategy was to establish the Greater East Asia Co-prosperity Sphere and park themselves firmly in command of Vietnam, Korea, Burma, the Philippines, Dutch East India (oil!), Singapore etc, etc. They had no interest in taking on the US beyond getting a free hand to do that.
You are correct regarding the strategy of the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere. (And by the way, I just LOVE that name! Most benign name for a cruel, oppressive empire EVER!) However, it is also true that if Japan had won the Battle of Midway, they were interested in tackling Hawaii, especially Oahu. There's no guarantee that they could have conquered it, but they might have been able to deny its use to the Americans as a military base. This would have helped them secure the eastern edge of their empire.
Even worse was in Canada where they interned Canadian citizens who were of Japanese decent during the war then after the war they were stripped of their Canadian citizenship put them on a ship sent them back to Japan. Some children who ended up in Japan never spoken Japanese before. This was after they removed them from their homes, and land were penniless gave them a one way visa out of the country. Reminds me of the Nazi policies prior to breakout of WW2. I find it shocking that people in the year 2020 still justify this policy shows just how far America hasn't progressed.
What is the purpose of this?
Most of those involved are dead.
Like there's a bunch of old Japanese folks going "oh wow, thanks fellas, water under the bridge". If CA wanted to apologise they shoulda done it 75 years ago. Worthless pc political pandering.
And by the way, I just LOVE that name! Most benign name for a cruel, oppressive empire EVER!
Could have worked, too. Lots of the locals were quite happy to see the European colonials kicked out - if the Japanese hadn't been so incredibly heavy-handed occupiers, they might have had a real shot at forming an actual alliance. But if your expansionist motivation stems from a deep-rooted belief that you're being commanded by an actual divine being and that expanding your nation is a religious act, well...
Those who believe absurdities will commit atrocities, to mangle a quote.
You are correct regarding the strategy of the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere. (And by the way, I just LOVE that name! Most benign name for a cruel, oppressive empire EVER!) However, it is also true that if Japan had won the Battle of Midway, they were interested in tackling Hawaii, especially Oahu. There's no guarantee that they could have conquered it, but they might have been able to deny its use to the Americans as a military base. This would have helped them secure the eastern edge of their empire.
Meant to add: Denying the use of Hawaii to the US would have been desirable, but using it as a base to attack the US would not have served a purpose. The end-state for Japan wasn't an occupied or conquered US - they knew damn well that was unattainable - but a free hand in Asia. In early 1942, their attitude towards the US was much like that of Hitler's towards Britain in the summer of 1940: They felt like they'd managed a fait accompli, and that the sensible outcome would be a negotiated peace.
Your link to a Liberal rag disproves nothing I said.
The article is about misconduct in internment camps.
I merely mentioned Japanese-Americans were incarcerated. I made no statements regarding their treatment in those facilities.
I did mention it was wrong to confiscate their personal belongings, property and assets and even more wrong to compensate them for having their possessions confiscated without due process.
Uh no. You questioned their loyalty to the USA and offered no proof. I stand by my comments accordingly, and the quick dismissal of the LA Times as a liberal rag pretty much says you don't have a leg to stand on.
Some German and Italian Americans were interned but one statement made at that time was "you can't tell who is German or Italian by looking at them". The Japanese Empire attacked us unprovoked do you really think people were thinking that these are Americans their loyalty is to the USA? Heck even during Kennedy's run for president there was concern that he would be loyal to the Pope above the USA and that was in the 60's.
You have to look at the action through 1940's eyes its very easy to say to today this is wrong but the general thoughts in this country were that those who are different would have stronger loyalties to their home land. Heck they didn't trust Jews, Catholics, any Asian culture and Blacks in fact if you weren't a waspish loaf of white bread you could be suspect in many parts of the country.
The optimal word being "some" rather than nearly all.
There seems to be confusion then and now as to the nature of these people. Japanese-Americans were (and still are on this thread at least) assumed to be loyal to the Empire and Tojo whereas German and Italians Americans were almost never suspected of having loyalties to Hitler or Mussolini.
Why do people (then and now) still throw this accusation around so casually while the others get a pass?
And sure, it was a less enlightened time and that makes for an explanation. But it sure as hell is not an excuse.
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