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Old 02-18-2020, 06:34 AM
 
Location: South of Heaven
7,928 posts, read 3,469,281 times
Reputation: 11612

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They're not going to say it, but it's true. People in the middle class tend to have enough assets to have some degree of independence but not enough to have any influence. Their votes cannot be relied upon either. You can't always tell what they want, while with a poor person it's easier because you know what they need, and you can buy their vote by promising to give it to them for "free". You know what rich people want because they lobby for it, and reward you for providing it. The middle class is also collectively holding on to wealth that the elites feel rightfully belongs to them, while poor people present no such inconveniences. The left and the right may have different plans for this wealth but they all think they should get to decide what to do with it, and not leave it up to individuals. The middle class is in their way and one of the few things they can agree upon is that the disenfranchisement of the middle class beings enrichment to the ruling class.

When any politician says they are for the people, they don't mean Joe 6-pack. Of that you can be sure. How can you consistently pander to someone who has pretty much everything he needs but has an ever changing list of things that he wants? Especially if he doesn't even expect the government to provide what he wants. "Get out of my way and let me get what I want on my own" is not exactly a natural tendency of someone who seeks power through politics.
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Old 02-18-2020, 06:41 AM
 
19,387 posts, read 6,503,704 times
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Except I'm in the middle class, and Trump's booming economy has helped me - and 100 million middle class taxpayers like me - by virtue of record-low unemployment and/or a huge increase in investments. Contrast that to the policies being espoused by the likes of Sanders and Warren, and to a lesser extent Bloomberg, as they toss around ideas to make college free for all (or most), have other people pay off college students' debt, Medicare-for-all, etc. Freebies like this cost TRILLIONS and the middle class will be hit hard with tax increases to (attempt to) pay for them.
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Old 02-18-2020, 06:48 AM
 
17,440 posts, read 9,268,656 times
Reputation: 11907
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel976 View Post
Except I'm in the middle class, and Trump's booming economy has helped me - and 100 million middle class taxpayers like me - by virtue of record-low unemployment and/or a huge increase in investments. Contrast that to the policies being espoused by the likes of Sanders and Warren, and to a lesser extent Bloomberg, as they toss around ideas to make college free for all (or most), have other people pay off college students' debt, Medicare-for-all, etc. Freebies like this cost TRILLIONS and the middle class will be hit hard with tax increases to (attempt to) pay for them.
That's true of course - but look at the thread title again.

What all politicians, left right and middle, have in common is that they hate the middle class.

Donald Trump is NOT a "politician" - he is a businessman.
He is NOT "middle class", but he certainly understands "middle class" and knows they have either been ignored OR used by Politicians for Cannon Fodder.
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Old 02-18-2020, 06:49 AM
 
Location: OH->FL->NJ
17,005 posts, read 12,595,161 times
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ALL politicians bow to their corporate masters. Party does not matter. They just play a different game on the issues that their masters dont give them order about.
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Old 02-18-2020, 06:51 AM
 
19,387 posts, read 6,503,704 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibby View Post
That's true of course - but look at the thread title again.

What all politicians, left right and middle, have in common is that they hate the middle class.

Donald Trump is NOT a "politician" - he is a businessman.
He is NOT "middle class", but he certainly understands "middle class" and knows they have either been ignored OR used by Politicians for Cannon Fodder.
Excellent point.


And that also where Bloomberg falls short (you should pardon the pun!). He is not a politician, either, but shows how little he understands of the middle class.
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Old 02-18-2020, 06:51 AM
 
Location: South of Heaven
7,928 posts, read 3,469,281 times
Reputation: 11612
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel976 View Post
Except I'm in the middle class, and Trump's booming economy has helped me - and 100 million middle class taxpayers like me - by virtue of record-low unemployment and/or a huge increase in investments. Contrast that to the policies being espoused by the likes of Sanders and Warren, and to a lesser extent Bloomberg, as they toss around ideas to make college free for all (or most), have other people pay off college students' debt, Medicare-for-all, etc. Freebies like this cost TRILLIONS and the middle class will be hit hard with tax increases to (attempt to) pay for them.
Trump has also brought up his willingness to accept negative interest rates. Disincentives to saving money. The middle class is the fool who must be parted from his money. I suppose a middle class person with increasing assets has a certain churn and burn appeal to them but it's hardly sustainable. At some point they must end up in a place where they need instead of just want. Perhaps that time comes when their health starts to go and they cannot afford the exorbitant medical bills.

Plus I think you will see that once Trump is gone it will be back to business as usual. I've seen no options from either party that offer to replace him while continuing his economic agenda. This is one reason his support is so strong.
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Old 02-18-2020, 06:54 AM
 
Location: South of Heaven
7,928 posts, read 3,469,281 times
Reputation: 11612
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibby View Post
That's true of course - but look at the thread title again.

What all politicians, left right and middle, have in common is that they hate the middle class.

Donald Trump is NOT a "politician" - he is a businessman.
He is NOT "middle class", but he certainly understands "middle class" and knows they have either been ignored OR used by Politicians for Cannon Fodder.
One more thing to add to the list of things that scare the establishment when it comes to Trump.
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Old 02-18-2020, 06:55 AM
 
19,387 posts, read 6,503,704 times
Reputation: 12310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxic Waltz View Post
Trump has also brought up his willingness to accept negative interest rates. Disincentives to saving money. The middle class is the fool who must be parted from his money. I suppose a middle class person with increasing assets has a certain churn and burn appeal to them but it's hardly sustainable. At some point they must end up in a place where they need instead of just want. Perhaps that times comes when their health starts to go and they cannot afford the exorbitant medical bills.
OK, but you are looking for things to criticize Trump on in an attempt to hide all the good his policies have done for the economy - primarily lowering the corporate tax rate and removing numerous onerous regulations the anti-business Obama put in place - and how well people are doing in terms of the employment picture, wage growth especially on the lower end, and the roaring stock market. (Now the liberals will come up with an exception: my aunt's friend's sister can't find a job, blah-blah-blah.)
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Old 02-18-2020, 06:59 AM
 
Location: western East Roman Empire
9,367 posts, read 14,313,867 times
Reputation: 10085
Quote:
What all politicians, left right and middle, have in common is that they hate the middle class.
With global trade and offshore manufacturing, open borders, illegal immigration and automation, the middle class is an expensive nuisance.

Its last function in its relatively brief and exceptional history is to continue consumption on a tight credit leash until even that is no longer necessary.

Then production will be based on a combination of AI, robotics, and a partial reversion to slave labor which over the long sweep of history is a norm.

Good Luck!
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Old 02-18-2020, 07:06 AM
 
45,676 posts, read 24,012,426 times
Reputation: 15559
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel976 View Post
OK, but you are looking for things to criticize Trump on in an attempt to hide all the good his policies have done for the economy - primarily lowering the corporate tax rate and removing numerous onerous regulations the anti-business Obama put in place - and how well people are doing in terms of the employment picture, wage growth especially on the lower end, and the roaring stock market. (Now the liberals will come up with an exception: my aunt's friend's sister can't find a job, blah-blah-blah.)
So all of this tax cuts, onerous regulations being dismissed and GDP is not any better than the years prior to Trump and these policies. The 10 year recovery has had a positive cumulative effect on unemployment rate and stock market -- but there is nothing to suggest that the policies you identified influenced this ongoing recovery, significantly. I know -- in our house --- we haven't felt the economic gains of either deregulation or the tax cuts. The tax cuts were nominal at best. Take home is still about the same as it was. In 2019 we did see more take home pay but once the IRS fixed the tax deduction tables we went back to where we were -- lol.


https://www.investopedia.com/insight...-middle-class/ America's Slowly Disappearing Middle Class

https://qz.com/1592826/the-middle-cl...by-generation/ the middle class is getting smaller and smaller, generation by generation


https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...come-families/ The American middle class is stable in size, but losing ground financially to upper-income families

The last title of the link....The American middle class is stable in size, but losing ground financially to upper-income families --- is specifically what Warren & Sanders argue as they defend their social programs (note I'm not all in on the social programs -- I know you all think I'm all in liberal but I'm not)........Democrat candidates are arguing that during this healthy economy there should be bigger gains for working and middle classes. All the stats point to the rich getting richer by a way bigger margin than the rest of the folks.
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