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Old 02-23-2020, 01:41 PM
 
698 posts, read 232,730 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
North Korea is the only closed totalitarian society.

Vietnam is rapidly trending towards capitalism no diff than China has.

Not a young person in the US who is not shocked to see the diff between their net and gross pay on their first paycheck.
NK in no way resembles all the property being owned by the people, so no, it is not communism. China has some form of free enterprise, seems like there are a lot of chinese companies on you tube. Net and gross pay?
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Old 02-23-2020, 01:42 PM
 
Location: San Diego
18,651 posts, read 7,499,353 times
Reputation: 14908
Will communism eventually win?


No.

Actually, the countries that try communism (or socialism) never win.

Communism/Socialism either gets defeated by the people not wanting it, or it temporarily gets put in place and then the entire country slides downhill into oppression, poverty, and (sometimes) outright mass death (see Holodomor, Cuban revolution, "Killing Fields", "Cultural Revolution" etc.)

I wouldn't call any of those things a win.
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Old 02-23-2020, 01:45 PM
 
Location: southern california
61,289 posts, read 87,169,949 times
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We follow the French model so far yellow jacket is like our trump pushback
If they fail more than likely we are next- lots of anti French in France lots of anti Americans in America
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Old 02-23-2020, 01:46 PM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,483,674 times
Reputation: 8094
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboteer View Post
Will communism eventually win?


No.

Actually, the countries that try communism (or socialism) never win.

Communism/Socialism either gets defeated by the people not wanting it, or it temporarily gets put in place and then the entire country slides downhill into oppression, poverty, and (sometimes) outright mass death (see Holodomor, Cuban revolution, "Killing Fields", "Cultural Revolution" etc.)

I wouldn't call any of those things a win.
Culture revolution has started in US long ago. You must have been living under a rock.
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Old 02-23-2020, 01:51 PM
 
46,839 posts, read 25,771,071 times
Reputation: 29320
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
The so-called "independent man...lift yourself up by your bootstraps....never really existed. It was a fairy tale of Davy Crockett and the like. Sure, with about 1/100th or less people here most anyone (white and male) who had a few bucks or family connections could end up owning vast land tracts or other franchises. But with 320 million and the selling off of most of the USA to foreign interests that is virtually impossible.
Meh. I like to mention this Dane:

https://www.forbes.com/profile/lars-.../#51243fd378d5

Born in 1947 as son of a potato farmer, apprenticed in a bedding shop, decided it would be more fun to own his own shop, perhaps two or three... At his death at age 71, his company owned 2,500+ stores in 50 countries and he had a net worth of 5+ billion - more than Trump, for those keeping score at home.

And yes, that was in oh-so-scary socialist welfare-state-y Denmark.
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Old 02-23-2020, 01:58 PM
 
19,680 posts, read 10,003,948 times
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There has never been and probably never will be an actual Communist country. China, Cuba, etc. are NOT Communist.
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Old 02-23-2020, 02:01 PM
 
698 posts, read 232,730 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floorist View Post
There has never been and probably never will be an actual Communist country. China, Cuba, etc. are NOT Communist.
I remember one of my professors many years ago telling me there were only 2 places you could find communism. One was the kibbutz and the other was New Harmony Indiana.
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Old 02-23-2020, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
18,869 posts, read 14,060,540 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floorist View Post
There has never been and probably never will be an actual Communist country. China, Cuba, etc. are NOT Communist.
You are correct. The respective countries only claimed to have achieved socialism - not pure communism.
However, since both socialism and communism are but variations on collectivism which requires the abolition of private property, it's moot.

America has been socialist since 1933. But it used stealth socialism. Instead of outright nationalization of labor and industry, it relied on ever growing taxes and pervasive regulation to wrest effective control over the nation. And now, the seeds planted in 1933 are blossoming with the hordes supporting Bernie Sanders' platform of "take" from the "rich" and "give" to the "poor" thus elevating envy and theft by government into a sacrament.

The irony is that according to the law, it was all done by "consent of the governed." Only no one can quite tell when and how they gave that consent.

True capitalism, the private ownership of the means of production, distribution and ownership of the profits generated, does not exist if the government can take any of it away (by taxes or other means). That would negate private ownership and make it quasi public ownership.
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Old 02-23-2020, 04:17 PM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,483,674 times
Reputation: 8094
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
You are correct. The respective countries only claimed to have achieved socialism - not pure communism.
However, since both socialism and communism are but variations on collectivism which requires the abolition of private property, it's moot.

America has been socialist since 1933. But it used stealth socialism. Instead of outright nationalization of labor and industry, it relied on ever growing taxes and pervasive regulation to wrest effective control over the nation. And now, the seeds planted in 1933 are blossoming with the hordes supporting Bernie Sanders' platform of "take" from the "rich" and "give" to the "poor" thus elevating envy and theft by government into a sacrament.

The irony is that according to the law, it was all done by "consent of the governed." Only no one can quite tell when and how they gave that consent.

True capitalism, the private ownership of the means of production, distribution and ownership of the profits generated, does not exist if the government can take any of it away (by taxes or other means). That would negate private ownership and make it quasi public ownership.
Well said!
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Old 02-23-2020, 04:21 PM
 
Location: Long Island, N.Y.
6,933 posts, read 2,373,461 times
Reputation: 5004
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
Guy died nearly 30 years ago.

Like Putin, he was ex KGB in a failed experiment.
So, what about the substance of his words, ideas, and predictions of the effect of the active measures the Soviets had contaminated our edu, media, and governance with?

You might have noticed, if you watched the video, that just about everything he observed at that time (1983), and what we see today, he described accurately.

Yes, Communism is a FAILED experiment, but the damage done is still a problem TODAY.
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