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People demand higher pay but those same people support Democrats who want to raise your taxes, ie take your money. Go figure
We need to have a discussion with them. I'm ok with the higher pay part of their demand, so long as the market will bear it, and that pay rate isnt artificial. They have to be worth it to a public employer, or to their customers if they own a business (like me).
The "raise your taxes, ie take your money" side of your comment is where we need an honest dialogue.
They must give us their proposed tax rates, and together we need to see if they are achievable, and would yield the optimal overall tax haul, or not.
What is Bernie's overall tax rate he is proposing? I read highest is 45%, but then he's got a wealth tax and a VAT right? What is the effective overall tax rate on the top 1%? Will that tax rate cause them to flee like what happened in France 2010-2018? 42,000 of theri wealthiest resident bolted, and never returened. It was catastophic, and we can't do that here.
Precisely the point I'm trying to make here. There is a "magic" tax rate that kills incentive to work.
At some "magic" tax rate, the overall tax haul flowing into the Fed declines.
This is what I'm trying to illustrate here. The Laffer Curve is real, at what tax rate does total haul begin to decrease is what we need to know before voting for Bernie, or any of the Dems because they are all proposing jacking taxes.
Nobody is talking about how much is to much? What is the optimal tax rate that yields the max tax haul.
We are seeing the Laffer Curve working right now. Trump lowered tax RATES which helped to create Economic Growth which resulted in record high Federal Tax REVENUE. Grow the entire PIE, and everyone benefits.
Throw in State, Local, Property, Sales and all the other taxes you pay and most Middle Income people are already at 50+ %.
I agree, but most historical data doesn't include property taxes, sales taxes, tobacco taxes, ect.., so by sticking with income related taxes, we can learn from history and other Countries...like France.
When overall payroll taxes exceed 50%, that seems to be the level where overalll tax haul to the feds begins to decline. Whatever the magic max tax rate is, we need to know it, and agree to it, and then learn how to live w/in it.
Hauser's Law has spoken on this and hasn't been off by more than 2.5% since the income tax was ratified.
More than 18% of the GDP is unusual, 17.3% is the average...NO MATTER WHAT THE TAX RATES ARE.
100 years later, America has absolutely established how much federal tax it is willing to pay. The tax rates don't matter because people change their behavior in the face of onerous taxation. The always end up settling somewhere around 17% of the GDP. You have a few "yeah, but what about..." years where it was much higher or lower (20.1% one year during Clinton, 14.5% during one Obama year), but in general, America will be willing to pay about 17% in federal taxes.
We are seeing the Laffer Curve working right now. Trump lowered tax RATES which helped to create Economic Growth which resulted in record high Federal Tax REVENUE. Grow the entire PIE, and everyone benefits.
Yes, Reagan did the same thing. But how low is to low? If Trump drops taxes again on Corporations and Rich people and now Middle class people, will the overall tax haul fall? Inflation is 2.3% and population growth rate is 1%, and economic growth rate is say 2%. 2021's tax haul must be ~5% greater than 2020 or we fall behind. Trump's been achiving this, but howmuch lower can he go and still do it?
How low is too low? How high is to high? What tax rate maximizes the total haul? Once we establish that, then we know how much we have to spend.
Currently, what we take in as a Country, and what we spend, is TOTALLY disconnected. THAT will eventually kill the America we live in today. That is why we owe Trillions to others.
When it interferes with household and small business investment and budgeting decisions, specifically when it makes more sense to do nothing because a certain level of taxation destroys the value of doing something otherwise productive.
It took the Russians about 70 years to figure out that equation, the Venezuelans about seven.
When it interferes with household and small business investment and budgeting decisions, specifically when it makes more sense to do nothing because a certain level of taxation destroys the value of doing something otherwise productive.
It took the Russians about 70 years to figure out that equation, the Venezuelans about seven.
Do you think we are at that optimal tax rate right now?
Could we achieve more w/o harming incentive and reducing the overall tax haul?
Could we further increase our tax haul of we lowered rates again?
We need to agree on the optimal rate that maximizes the haul, w/o kiling incentive..right?
Hauser's Law has spoken on this and hasn't been off by more than 2.5% since the income tax was ratified.
More than 18% of the GDP is unusual, 17.3% is the average...NO MATTER WHAT THE TAX RATES ARE.
100 years later, America has absolutely established how much federal tax it is willing to pay. The tax rates don't matter because people change their behavior in the face of onerous taxation. The always end up settling somewhere around 17% of the GDP. You have a few "yeah, but what about..." years where it was much higher or lower (20.1% one year during Clinton, 14.5% during one Obama year), but in general, America will be willing to pay about 17% in federal taxes.
Undertood, there is an established acceptable range, but is there an optimal tax to GDP ratio? What was it when we had the highest GDP?
I think when you look at it from a GDP perspective, it becomes too obtuse or distant for most Americans to personalize. Also, what the GDP is going to be in the future is unknown. I say we strive to stay w/in the range you cite, and carry forward to establishing the optimal tax rate w/in that range. Optimal being whatever yields the most tax haul w/o harming incentive.
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