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Well then your posts here don't show you don't believe in the things you teach. Also that you are apt to generalizing parents and children. I don't claim to be an expert, I don't work in the field everyday. But as noted, I've been around and worked with kids my entire life.
I admit I love children and I personally think that as people go, they are the best people on earth - kids ages about 4-11. Once puberty hits they start to go nutso lol, but I also even love tweens and teens. I consider them "pure" beings when it comes to our species of humanity and I adore them and understand that a lot of the things they say/do are because of their biology in a particular phase, which impacts both their cognition/decision making skills/actions and physical makeup.
The idea that a 6 year old will learn anything from this situation other than to develop anxiety and fear is just silly to me. Interestingly, I was just speaking with someone the other day about even spanking/physical punishment. Six year olds really do not have a good handle on their emotions and going to an extreme like this with this girl it is just sad to me because it does more harm than good. I'd think if you write textbooks about child development, then you should know this and should know not to generalize children and their families the way you have throughout this tread.
As I said, I don’t think anyone should be arrested and I certainly don’t support corporal punishment. Again, I will also repeat, it is February, not September or even October, what we saw on video tape was at least five months in the making, it was not some first, knee jerk reaction. The school has clearly been having trouble controlling the child and no longer felt contacting the guardian would assist them. This was not some sleepy child who was grumpy, schools have oodles and oodles of experience with that phenomenon.
Generalizing is essentially what research does. What do you think the purpose of child development research is, if it is not to generalize developmental norms of children? The purpose is to establish benchmarks so those dealing with a child will know whether their behavior is normal. Additionally, as someone who has actually worked in public education, as opposed to hearing stories from their mother, I know, and the research supports, that children and parents/guardians tend to have certain patterns in relationship to behavior and schools. Yes, people are individuals, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t identifiable patterns in them.
While there may be biological explanations for disruptive or destructive behavior, it does not change the reality that it negatively effects other children in the school and therefore must be addressed. Parents and lay people get hung up on the “but when he’s with me...” factor, failing to understand behavior that is manageable one-on-one or with a couple of kids can create a real crisis when there are 15+ kids.
And, yes, on this subject I am claiming to be an expert, and that colors my perception of the story. You are reacting to this story with your heart, which is fine since you aren’t the one who must address her behavior at school and it is a reflection of your good soul. You have the luxury of thinking just about that one poor child, the school doesn’t, or at least shouldn’t.
For the record, I do feel sorry for the child and do realize Grandma is in a tough place. Doesn’t change the fact that I think the child needs to be in an alternative placement, though.
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I blame society. When I was growing up Kaia would be crying from being walloped on her behind for acting like a brat. Now, the teacher's are too scared to lay a finger on her, so if she acts like a brat, the police need to be called.
As I said, I don’t think anyone should be arrested and I certainly don’t support corporal punishment. Again, I will also repeat, it is February, not September or even October, what we saw on video tape was at least five months in the making, it was not some first, knee jerk reaction. The school has clearly been having trouble controlling the child and no longer felt contacting the guardian would assist them. This was not some sleepy child who was grumpy, schools have oodles and oodles of experience with that phenomenon.
Generalizing is essentially what research does. What do you think the purpose of child development research is, if it is not to generalize developmental norms of children? The purpose is to establish benchmarks so those dealing with a child will know whether their behavior is normal. Additionally, as someone who has actually worked in public education, as opposed to hearing stories from their mother, I know, and the research supports, that children and parents/guardians tend to have certain patterns in relationship to behavior and schools. Yes, people are individuals, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t identifiable patterns in them.
While there may be biological explanations for disruptive or destructive behavior, it does not change the reality that it negatively effects other children in the school and therefore must be addressed. Parents and lay people get hung up on the “but when he’s with me...” factor, failing to understand behavior that is manageable one-on-one or with a couple of kids can create a real crisis when there are 15+ kids.
And, yes, on this subject I am claiming to be an expert, and that colors my perception of the story. You are reacting to this story with your heart, which is fine since you aren’t the one who must address her behavior at school and it is a reflection of your good soul. You have the luxury of thinking just about that one poor child, the school doesn’t, or at least shouldn’t.
For the record, I do feel sorry for the child and do realize Grandma is in a tough place. Doesn’t change the fact that I think the child needs to be in an alternative placement, though.
Your generalizations were/are not based on research in the thread. You generalized the grandmother of the girl, saying that if called, she would not pick up the child. Most of your comments come from personal bias of parents in school systems. And FWIW I can understand that if you really did work in school systems. People often develop biases against certain groups of people when they encounter the same sorts of behavior from those people on a regular basis.
If there is research that shows that parents don't come to school when called, I'd like to see it. I looked up this topic when you stated it and couldn't find anything about this "pattern" as you describe. It would also be interesting to know the reasons why parents gave for why they didn't come (just as you are apt to place generalized biases on parents, parents place biases upon teachers/school administrators and one of them is that you over react to every little thing and call them way too much - I'll note as a parent that I've been called plenty of time for some BS. Teachers also hold grudges against students and literally bully them and goad them into misbehaving. I've personally witnessed this, as as my mom and it is the biggest issue she feels he faces in the public schools where we live - teachers who develop cliques and who speak ill of kids and treat those kids poorly then become surprised when the kid treats them poorly in response.
There are a lot of reasons for kids to misbehave in classrooms that research does not cover that have to do with the personality, contempt for, and behavior of the teacher towards the children).
However, I especially do agree with the bold. Kids do take advantage of situations where there is a lack of adequate classroom management skills or when they see an opening to do something and be naughty. But that is also a part of the natural development of a child - to push boundaries. The police are not adequately trained to deal with children and traumatizing children is not the way to teach them to respect boundaries.
And again, I read this story months ago. The school did not want the child arrested. The social worker got the police involved, so your comments about the school/what they did/didn't do in this situation is unwarranted. The school also felt the officer and what occurred was an over-reaction. I can be empathetic to educators as I know most of them are not as I described above. I also trust them more than a police officer to handle an unruly child and I trust their view of the situation.
You believing the child needs an alternative placement however, is also over generalized as this is the only incident you know of with this girl. Why would you think a child should be referred to an alternative placement over one incident. This could be an isolated incident and can be resolved. And she was no longer in the classroom. She was arrested in the administrator's office, which more than likely means that she had already been removed from class and was not disrupting the class. There was no way for you to be able to generalize the girl or her grandmother/home situation. You jumped to a prejudicial conclusion about both of them for no real reason based on one incident in one day.
I'll also reiterate, again that sleep apnea does cause behavioral issues for children. The fact that you all overlook this is actually alarming as there have been medical studies that prove this to be the case. You can believe "patterns" in research when it comes to parents not picking up kids, but choose to ignore research on sleep apnea in young children. I don't typically provide links for this sort of thing, as I'd think someone who states they write textbooks about research would have taken a look at the medical research on this subject so I'll post that info below. As noted, I have sleep apnea. It runs in my family. I have a nephew who was diagnosed with it at age 4. He had a lot of issues with his behavior before it was corrected via surgery (removal of tonsils and adenoids) when he was 6. I'll also note, since folks like to speak ill of parents, that she is a chubby girl and IMO that probably is the reason for her sleep disorder. My nephew was not over weight as a child and neither was I when I was diagnosed.
This study provides some helpful information for medical professionals consulting with parents about treatment options for children with SDB that, although it may remit, there are considerable behavioral risks associated with continued SDB. School personnel should also consider the possibility that SDB contributes to difficulties with hyperactivity, learning and behavioral and emotional deregulation in the classroom.
As I'm sure you are aware "emotional deregulation" means they lose the ability to control themselves. Sleep apnea is also in some studies linked with aggressive behavior in children especially prior to age 7, which this girl is/was. They are less likely to be able to regulate their emotions in general but confounded with this issue, it makes it worse.
Your generalizations were/are not based on research in the thread. You generalized the grandmother of the girl, saying that if called, she would not pick up the child. Most of your comments come from personal bias of parents in school systems. And FWIW I can understand that if you really did work in school systems. People often develop biases against certain groups of people when they encounter the same sorts of behavior from those people on a regular basis.
If there is research that shows that parents don't come to school when called, I'd like to see it. I looked up this topic when you stated it and couldn't find anything about this "pattern" as you describe. It would also be interesting to know the reasons why parents gave for why they didn't come (just as you are apt to place generalized biases on parents, parents place biases upon teachers/school administrators and one of them is that you over react to every little thing and call them way too much - I'll note as a parent that I've been called plenty of time for some BS. Teachers also hold grudges against students and literally bully them and goad them into misbehaving. I've personally witnessed this, as as my mom and it is the biggest issue she feels he faces in the public schools where we live - teachers who develop cliques and who speak ill of kids and treat those kids poorly then become surprised when the kid treats them poorly in response.
There are a lot of reasons for kids to misbehave in classrooms that research does not cover that have to do with the personality, contempt for, and behavior of the teacher towards the children).
However, I especially do agree with the bold. Kids do take advantage of situations where there is a lack of adequate classroom management skills or when they see an opening to do something and be naughty. But that is also a part of the natural development of a child - to push boundaries. The police are not adequately trained to deal with children and traumatizing children is not the way to teach them to respect boundaries.
And again, I read this story months ago. The school did not want the child arrested. The social worker got the police involved, so your comments about the school/what they did/didn't do in this situation is unwarranted. The school also felt the officer and what occurred was an over-reaction. I can be empathetic to educators as I know most of them are not as I described above. I also trust them more than a police officer to handle an unruly child and I trust their view of the situation.
You believing the child needs an alternative placement however, is also over generalized as this is the only incident you know of with this girl. Why would you think a child should be referred to an alternative placement over one incident. This could be an isolated incident and can be resolved. And she was no longer in the classroom. She was arrested in the administrator's office, which more than likely means that she had already been removed from class and was not disrupting the class. There was no way for you to be able to generalize the girl or her grandmother/home situation. You jumped to a prejudicial conclusion about both of them for no real reason based on one incident in one day.
Oh, good grief. I capitulate. You with all your wisdom gained from talking to your mother and reading the newspaper know far more than I possibly could after three decades in public education, fifteen years of teaching child development, seven years of being a university student teacher supervisor, and writing a textbook on the subject. You win.
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When I post in bold red that is moderator action and, per the TOS, can only be discussed through Direct Message.
Oh, good grief. I capitulate. You with all your wisdom gained from talking to your mother and reading the newspaper know far more than I possibly could after three decades in public education, fifteen years of teaching child development, seven years of being a university student teacher supervisor, and writing a textbook on the subject. You win.
LOL not trying to win. It honestly is surprising to me since you deem yourself an expert that you don't know that sleep apnea causes children to have behavioral problems. Just seems to me you may be one of those educators who think they know what is best for every child based on your reviewing information on other children. There are always variables for individual children and families that should be considered prior to placing judgement. When I initially noted the sleep apnea it was surprising that so many of you dismissed it when it actually does cause the behavior that this girl supposedly expressed. The officer is the main one at fault here IMO not the school, not the girl and not her grandmother. As I stated on my first post, I'm glad he lost his job.
LOL not trying to win. It honestly is surprising to me since you deem yourself an expert that you don't know that sleep apnea causes children to have behavioral problems. Just seems to me you may be one of those educators who think they know what is best for every child based on your reviewing information on other children. There are always variables for individual children and families that should be considered prior to placing judgement. When I initially noted the sleep apnea it was surprising that so many of you dismissed it when it actually does cause the behavior that this girl supposedly expressed. The officer is the main one at fault here IMO not the school, not the girl and not her grandmother. As I stated on my first post, I'm glad he lost his job.
When did I ever state sleep apnea does not contribute to behavior problems? Show me. You won’t be able to. However, this child is not the only child to have sleep apnea, the apparent level of disruptive behavior is atypical of children with sleep apnea, and regardless of the origination of the behavior disturbance, whether biological or emotional, the behavior must be addressed and the safety of others must be taken into consideration.
What you don’t seem to grasp is that how a child must be dealt with in a regular classroom, in a special education self-contained classroom, in a health setting, and in a home all differ. Her behavior doesn’t make the child a bad person, but it may make her a student who needs a specialized placement. And, yes, I suspect she does indeed need that.
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When I post in bold red that is moderator action and, per the TOS, can only be discussed through Direct Message.
Moderator - Diabetes and Kentucky (including Lexington & Louisville)
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