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In your perfect world everyone is quickly vaccinated and the virus is muted. That world does not exist for many reasons.
We are not going to succeed with mass vaccinations. I don't think that its a viable goal at this point. We are simply too slow at it. And too many don't want it to take it. If we are stuck at 10-20% of the world vaccinated against whatever new variant covid is attacking us with. How is that a plan? I don't think the SAGE people are really pro or anti vaccine. But they are pointing out the reality of what might happen.
The vaccine helps me personally avoid getting Delta. Its a personal thing. But that has nothing to do with what were are dealing with on a global basis. And if we continue to refuse shut all incoming travel to this country what happens globally will effect us directly. If you have a fly problem in your house and refuse to shut the front door. Spraying your indoors over and over is a temporary solution. Better to close the front door.
I wasn't proposing a perfect vaccination world at all but saying the exact opposite. The pandemic is a problem with vaccination an imperfect tool. My point was to ask what mutations might happen under a scenario of mass infection? It was a question. Why wouldn't a more virulent virus arise, all the more difficult to 'handle' in a community where there now is massive spread. SAGE's scenario one.
A frying pan into the fire question.
SAGE is talking about the virus and mutation. How that impacts vaccination. And people, certainly if the virus becomes more virulent.
But people have been sold a false bill of goods that covid can be eradicated by vaccinating everything that moves in the US. Or by masking. Or by lock downs. Or by vaccine passports.
Covid is never going away. It was never going to go away.
And every expert and scientist that has said so much has been told to sit down and shut up.
So now you have legions of scared angry people who have been whipped into a frenzy from the msm and are literally being told that this is the fault of the unvaccinated and those people need to be removed from society.
We would've been closer to the end if we wouldn't have turned the 15 days to slow the spread into 18 months of unattainable goals.
This sums it up. People were sold fantasy and speculation dressed up as The Science. Now they are angry that we can't 'end the pandemic.' The narrative will shift to "we couldn't have predicted this..." except they could have if they listened to the people they silenced.
The ruling class should take a giant dose of humility. Instead, they are doubling down on their hubris.
I wasn't proposing a perfect vaccination world at all but saying the exact opposite. The pandemic is a problem with vaccination an imperfect tool. My point was to ask what mutations might happen under a scenario of mass infection? It was a question. Why wouldn't a more virulent virus arise, all the more difficult to 'handle' in a community where there now is massive spread. SAGE's scenario one.
The vaccine is a good tool if you can vaccinate most of the world against the current strain spreading. One problem to that is these inferior vaccines that are not very effective against delta. So quickly vaccinated everyone against Delta when it might be 30% effective seems pointless. And the other problem is quickly vaccinating the world which its obvious we cannot do.
But if a more dangerous mutation is going to happen, is that not going to happen regardless? Most of the world is not vaccinated an its going to keep spreading in waves. Perhaps speeding up the process will get us to the promised land of a cold like virus instead of the one we have now. And if that is really never going to happen we might as well find out. Even in the SAGE worst case scenario 70% of the world survives it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EveryLady
A frying pan into the fire question.
SAGE is talking about the virus and mutation. How that impacts vaccination. And people, certainly if the virus becomes more virulent.
There is also chatter from some in science that the vaccine itself may trigger variants that evade it since the vaccines do not actually stop the virus. There is still spread.
Last edited by Oklazona Bound; 08-06-2021 at 10:07 AM..
That is the moral dilemma. Like the scenario that a runaway train car has two passengers on it. Down below there are 20 people that may die if the car is not stopped. You have the chance to derail the car which will for sure kill the two on board. There is only time to make split second decision. What do you do?
I was fine with going along with the original approach. Mask up avoid getting sick and wait for the vaccine to conquer the pandemic. That failed. Its time to detail the runaway train.
I agree with you. The plan failed and we need to try other things. First let people resume normal life. Second, authorize the use of safe treatments such as ivermectin.
I agree with you. The plan failed and we need to try other things. First let people resume normal life. Second one authorize the use of safe treatments such as ivermectin.
But there is still limited data on ivermectin's efficacy. For example, does it prevent long COVID? No one knows yet. Relying entirely on that without other mitigation could leave us with a lot of people that are out of work for months on end.
That is the moral dilemma. Like the scenario that a runaway train car has two passengers on it. Down below there are 20 people that may die if the car is not stopped. You have the chance to derail the car which will for sure kill the two on board. There is only time to make split second decision. What do you do?
I was fine with going along with the original approach. Mask up avoid getting sick and wait for the vaccine to conquer the pandemic. That failed. Its time to detail the runaway train.
Here's what's really criminal: we don't have an approved treatment protocol for covid.
I'm not even going to get into ivermectin, zinc, blah blah blah ... I don't care what it is (though I do suspect that ivermectin + several other meds works very well) but the fact that 18 months in we have nothing official.
NOTHING.
Makes no sense.
How many people could've been saved? How many people COULD be saved?
Instead, we're being beaten over the head with the vaccine. There should have been both. There should be both.
Greatest country on earth. Tons of money thrown at it. And I don't buy Big Pharma can't walk and chew gum at the same time.
But there is still limited data on ivermectin's efficacy. For example, does it prevent long COVID? No one knows yet. Relying entirely on that without other mitigation could leave us with a lot of people that are out of work for months on end.
There is a lot of data regarding it’s efficacy. No one will force you to take it but it should be easily available to those who want it.
In no way am I suggesting people solely rely on ivermectin as opposed to your side that expects people to solely rely on the vaccine. There can multiple tools. You can continue with your boosters and others can use other tools such as ivermectin. Some people might use both. Options are a good thing and so is choice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckity
Here's what's really criminal: we don't have an approved treatment protocol for covid.
I'm not even going to get into ivermectin, zinc, blah blah blah ... I don't care what it is (though I do suspect that ivermectin + several other meds works very well) but the fact that 18 months in we have nothing official.
NOTHING.
Makes no sense.
How many people could've been saved? How many people COULD be saved?
Instead, we're being beaten over the head with the vaccine. There should have been both. There should be both.
Here's what's really criminal: we don't have an approved treatment protocol for covid.
I'm not even going to get into ivermectin, zinc, blah blah blah ... I don't care what it is (though I do suspect that ivermectin + several other meds works very well) but the fact that 18 months in we have nothing official.
NOTHING.
Makes no sense.
How many people could've been saved? How many people COULD be saved?
Instead, we're being beaten over the head with the vaccine. There should have been both. There should be both.
Greatest country on earth. Tons of money thrown at it. And I don't buy Big Pharma can't walk and chew gum at the same time.
I agree 100%. I am not sold on some of these treatments talked about. Partially because I don't trust those yelling the loudest about them. But like you said why not get something out there. When I had covid and was very ill my woman at the time got meds from Mexico from a doctor who was a family member. I know one was a anti pneumonia med and tereflu and two other things I don't recall the names of. I recovered quickly after starting the med treatment. My ex's mom also was sick with covid in Mexico and had the same recovery. Could be timing and it would have happened regardless. But if I got sick again I would do the same treatment.
But at this point we should have something. I have no idea what is in the works if anything.
There is a lot of data regarding it’s efficacy. No one will force you to take it but it should be easily available to those who want it.
In no way am I suggesting people solely rely on ivermectin as opposed to your side that expects people to solely rely on the vaccine. There can multiple tools. You can continue with your boosters and others can use other tools such as ivermectin. Some people might use both. Options are a good thing and so is choice.
Exactly.
I did not say people should rely solely on the vaccine. I am vaccinated and take vitamin D supplements and would take ivermectin if I had a breakthrough and it was shown to reduce the chance of getting long COVID. (I am young and in good health, so the big risk for me would not be hospitalization but long-term disability). Same thing if we were to have another new variant that made the shots not work.
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