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Old 08-14-2021, 12:37 PM
 
14,944 posts, read 8,555,251 times
Reputation: 7360

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Quote:
Originally Posted by EveryLady View Post
What is the connection between my post and your post?

The original poster said the manufacturers say THIS (his assertion). What you've attached is that the manufacturers guarantee NOTHING. This isn't like buying an appliance under a one-year warranty.

The purchaser has to DO THE DATA. Although no doubt Pfizer continues research. The data compiled by Purchaser UK and Purchaser Israel - which that poster was disputing - currently indicate: x y and z.

That poster also rejects data if initiated linked to Reuters, even though the study link is attached. Another poster just now wondered if he would believe the words out of the Israeli health minister's very own MOUTH.
Poster rejects anything that a “health minister” i.e., bureaucrat says when it conflicts with the facts.

 
Old 08-14-2021, 12:54 PM
 
13,389 posts, read 6,410,753 times
Reputation: 10022
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
Poster rejects anything that a “health minister” i.e., bureaucrat says when it conflicts with the facts.
Poster is unable to explain how the Israeli health minister's explanation of what is going on in Israel conflicts with his so called facts and where his so called facts originate from.
 
Old 08-14-2021, 01:04 PM
 
14,944 posts, read 8,555,251 times
Reputation: 7360
Quote:
Originally Posted by EveryLady View Post
Properly the manufacturers did not make assertions for which there was no supporting evidence. The end-point for Pfizer actually was mild disease defined as a positive PCR + one symptom. J&J's was broader, focusing more on severity of symptoms.

The phase 3 trials a year ago did not attempt to regularly PCR-test the participants to measure asymptomatic infections or to contract-trace results of infections. Contact-tracing only the far fewer vaxxed symptomatic would have meant unblinding the trial!
A year ago? These vaccines are still in phase 3 trials. Unfortunately, the insatiable desire to vax everyone will ultimately eliminate the phase 3 control group, rendering long term safety analysis impossible. (Which I believe is deliberate).


Quote:
Originally Posted by EveryLady View Post
Once the vaccines reached the general population, there was the opportunity to develop data. Initially the vaccines were pretty much "sterilizing" although that resulted from nAbs now waning as virus infectivity increases.

So that doesn't really count, if the impact is to be temporary!!!. What creates so-called real sterilizing vaccines - shutting the door to spread - is not the vaccine itself being so intrinsically great but that it inoculates against a disease like chicken pox, which results from a much more stable DNA virus.
We aren’t talking about chicken pox, or DNA viruses. We are talking about covid which is an RNA virus. RNA viruses mutate at such high rates that vaccines aren’t really a very effective strategy, due to the limited amount and duration of protection. They know this because development of corona virus vaccines have been failing for decades, mostly due to ADE.
 
Old 08-14-2021, 01:10 PM
 
Location: Stillwater, Oklahoma
30,976 posts, read 21,567,116 times
Reputation: 9675
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
I draw the line at controlling what is put into my own body. The vaccine has not been proven safe or effective and I will not accept being coerced into getting injected with it. I will not accept my kids being forced to get it.

My body my choice was not just a passing fad for me. I meant it then and I mean it now.
So, no doubt, it gets down to joining with the animal world in the fight for the survival of the fittest, while hoping you're among the fittest and healthiest.
 
Old 08-14-2021, 01:16 PM
 
14,944 posts, read 8,555,251 times
Reputation: 7360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blondy View Post
Poster is unable to explain how the Israeli health minister's explanation of what is going on in Israel conflicts with his so called facts and where his so called facts originate from.
Poster’s facts are a combination of mathematics and common sense. When you have virtually a 100% vaccination rate across the entire population, surges in hospitalizations cannot be unvaccinated, by simple deductive reasoning.
 
Old 08-14-2021, 01:25 PM
 
13,389 posts, read 6,410,753 times
Reputation: 10022
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
Poster’s facts are a combination of mathematics and common sense. When you have virtually a 100% vaccination rate across the entire population, surges in hospitalizations cannot be unvaccinated, by simple deductive reasoning.
Which has nothing to do with your statement that vaccines cannot stop the spread of the disease.

There is growing evidence that the vaccinated spread the disease at a lower rate than the unvaccinated.
 
Old 08-14-2021, 01:27 PM
 
26,660 posts, read 13,676,529 times
Reputation: 19118
Quote:
Originally Posted by StillwaterTownie View Post
So, no doubt, it gets down to joining with the animal world in the fight for the survival of the fittest, while hoping you're among the fittest and healthiest.
I’m fine with that. Others don’t want to allow me to make that choice.
 
Old 08-14-2021, 01:32 PM
 
8,490 posts, read 3,310,354 times
Reputation: 6924
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
A year ago? These vaccines are still in phase 3 trials. Unfortunately, the insatiable desire to vax everyone will ultimately eliminate the phase 3 control group, rendering long term safety analysis impossible. (Which I believe is deliberate).
Yes a year ago. The study design determined the possible interpretations. The Pfizer phase 3 trials began in July 2020. Designed before that.

That was the point: the vaccine manufacturers could not make assertions if the study by its design was not sufficient to allow for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
We aren’t talking about chicken pox, or DNA viruses. We are talking about covid which is an RNA virus. RNA viruses mutate at such high rates that vaccines aren’t really a very effective strategy, due to the limited amount and duration of protection.
That poster to whom I responded was talking about leaky vaccines. The disease (as far as I'm aware) largely determines whether or not sterilizing immunity is possible.

We got the disease we got. Not the disease we would have preferred. Well no disease isperiod is but you get my drift. Covid is not chicken pox - that was the point.

Me, I used to get terribly sick from influenza until I started vaccinating once a year. I was a flu-magnet. Now I m flu-free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
They know this because development of corona virus vaccines have been failing for decades, mostly due to ADE.
There have been issues with ADE, particularly from inactive vaccine platforms that contain alum. At which point the vaccine is modified.

We couldn't choose the disease that showed up but there is some ability choose how the vaccine is designed.

Hundreds of millions of doses in and - as expected - ADE not an issue. Saying more would involve data and cites.
 
Old 08-14-2021, 01:42 PM
 
14,944 posts, read 8,555,251 times
Reputation: 7360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blondy View Post
Which has nothing to do with your statement that vaccines cannot stop the spread of the disease.

There is growing evidence that the vaccinated spread the disease at a lower rate than the unvaccinated.
Growing where? As I have already said, populations with virtually full vaccination coverage like Israel and Iceland and Gibraltar are seeing very similar surges as other areas with far less coverage.

This really shouldn’t require a deep analysis … the implications are pretty straight forward. The vaccines are neither preventing infections, nor are they preventing spread, and OBVIOUSLY not preventing hospitalizations. So what are they good for? Hundreds of Billions in pharma profits, while becoming a good source of overtime pay for the data scrubbers at VAERS.
 
Old 08-14-2021, 02:45 PM
 
14,944 posts, read 8,555,251 times
Reputation: 7360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blondy View Post
Which has nothing to do with your statement that vaccines cannot stop the spread of the disease.

There is growing evidence that the vaccinated spread the disease at a lower rate than the unvaccinated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EveryLady View Post
Good cite, 50 to 60% reduced chance of infection including asymptomatic, and thus spread . That's about what the Israeli's came up - 50% - that the Israeli Minister quoted on Face the Nation a couple of Sundays ago.
Asymptomatic means NOT SICK, and there is zero clinical evidence of any such asymptomatic spreading.

Actually, there isn’t evidence that the virus Sars Cov-2 even exists. Most people will probably be surprised to learn that there has never been a single purified virus sample isolated, out of all the millions allegedly infected. Not one example of a whole, isolated virus. Just viral fragments.
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