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Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
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The USSR tried to dramatically decrease income inequality but had a few major problems
1. When they overthrew all upper income people and replaced them with inexperienced peasants the economy collapsed.
Then
2. They had to bring back many of the same bourgeois that they had sent to the gulags. After a while the same families were returned to pre revolution status.
3. The govt did provide people basic housing and staples but the command economy could not provide high quality consumer goods as easily as the West or Japan could. So the average person had a secure job and a cheap small apartment but couldn't get a quality pair of pants or reliable car.
In China and North Korea people were divided into castes based on perceived loyalty to communism. People in the high castes do have it well off, but those at the bottom are very poor. Also those Confucius societies emphasize good of the masses over the individual, so some people being very poor is not considered a problem as long as greater society is advancing.
If you look at the pay in Communist countries like China, The Soviet Union, and North Korea, they all were paid dirt wages.
Before we got in bed with Communist China and the Cold War was in full bloom, we used to look at the differences between the workers in the Soviet Union and workers in America.
Many workers in America were paid high wages, one man could support the whole family, many were part of a union, consumers were rewarded with made in America high quality merchandise.
While in the Soviet Union, they were paid so little, they had to stand in the bread lines to make ends meet.
It is also against the law for workers to form their own unions in Communist Countries.
Luxuries are forbidden for all but the very connected... and everything else needed to barely live is free.
Don't get a bad social score, or you may have to rob & steal to survive.
If you look at the pay in Communist countries like China, The Soviet Union, and North Korea, they all were paid dirt wages.
Before we got in bed with Communist China and the Cold War was in full bloom, we used to look at the differences between the workers in the Soviet Union and workers in America.
Many workers in America were paid high wages, one man could support the whole family, many were part of a union, consumers were rewarded with made in America high quality merchandise.
While in the Soviet Union, they were paid so little, they had to stand in the bread lines to make ends meet.
It is also against the law for workers to form their own unions in Communist Countries.
Wow, so many false propaganda items in a such a short text. Too lazy to counter all of them, but here is one little fact:
Worker's salary in Soviet Union was about ~300 rubles/month, which is roughly equal to today's $4500-$5500/month; that's without counting free childcare and healthcare - those are very hard to quantify, but I think we can safely add $600/mo for 1 child/person for childcare and ~$400/mo for 1 person for health insurance. So, overall that's 5500-6500/mo, or $66K-$78K after taxes per person. Dirt wages, right?
On another hand, you would not suspect, say, Pakistan to be a "communist" country, right? Then why average wage there $227.12/mo? Because I can phrase it same way as you: "most capitalist countries pay dirt wages".
Try to think yourself (i.e. don't read/listen to propaganda) and realize that country income level very, very rarely depends on its economic system, but rather on quite a lot of other things.
Pay in those communist countries is a concern. So is if your party supervisor takes a dislike to you. It isn't just the fear of getting fired.
Does anyone believe that safety is a priority in China or the former USSR? East Germany? Who would like to go back in time and work at a Nuclear power plant in the former USSR?
Not to mention that US corporations love to outsource their manufacturing to countries which are ruled by communist political parties like China and Vietnam.
Yep!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez
Most US consumers demand cheap products made in places like China.
Would you favor laws that would limit imports?
No they don’t. American consumers NEVER demanded cheap Chinese made products. That’s a lie. Corporations have propagated that lie because THEY want cheap foreign labor. Americans have always been willing to pay more for well made domestic products.
If you look at the pay in Communist countries like China, The Soviet Union, and North Korea, they all were paid dirt wages.
Before we got in bed with Communist China and the Cold War was in full bloom, we used to look at the differences between the workers in the Soviet Union and workers in America.
Many workers in America were paid high wages, one man could support the whole family, many were part of a union, consumers were rewarded with made in America high quality merchandise.
While in the Soviet Union, they were paid so little, they had to stand in the bread lines to make ends meet.
It is also against the law for workers to form their own unions in Communist Countries.
1) Wages are relative. You might as well ask why workers in the 1800's were paid dirt wages compared to today. Most of Eastern Europe and Asia were what amounts to a third-world country prior to WWI.
2) There are two types of bread lines, charity lines and rationing lines. Both have existed to various degrees in almost every country. Rationing results from shortages. In the case of Venezuela, the shortage was from their dependence on selling oil to buy foreign goods(and then oil prices falling). Some shortages are from natural disasters, such as droughts, floods, and crop-failures. Other shortages are from war and political instability.
3) The wealth of any country is related to finance, industry, and technology. The United States became an industrial power in the late-1800's, and especially after WWII when most of the rest of the world was destroyed by the war. The Soviet Union didn't really begin to industrialize until Stalin in the 1930's, and then was invaded and lost 50 million people during WWII. China didn't begin to industrialize until the 1980's. And "Communist" China's industrial, technological, and financial growth since then has been quite amazing, and in some ways has already surpassed the United States.
4) Unions are supposed to protect workers from being exploited by capitalists, but if public-sector unions get in a position to monopolize a service, they can drive up their wages at the expense of "the state"(IE the other workers, especially those not in a position to unionize). As a result, the Unions drive up their own wages by driving down the wages of everyone else. Unions are supposed to be workers coming together to demand higher wages/work conditions from "the capitalists", but unions are just private organizations whose only job is to represent their clients in negotiations. A union is like a "manager" working for athletes. Their job is to make money for their clients, even if it comes at the expense of the other players, the team, or the fans.
5) The #1 priority of all governments is economic-growth because with money comes power. After the rest of the world destroyed itself in WWII and the United States became the preeminent industrial, technological, and financial power in the world, "one man could support the whole family". But as the rest of the world catches up to the United States, it means we have to try that much harder to stay ahead. Both men and women have to work, and we need immigrants to drive down wages to keep our businesses internationally-competitive, while also creating international relationships for favorable trade policies, providing us access to more markets and resources.
There are many things to criticize communism over, but don't give capitalism a pass. Both are fundamentally guided by the same forces, money. Money rules all.
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