Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
That's exactly what you said about Trump becoming president
Biden was a fool all his life. And now he is a senile fool. The big money elites would have a field day with that tool in the white house. It's one of the main reasons they and the DNC are doing everything possible to ensure he receives the nomination. The collusion and absolute corruption of the DNC is so in your face, even democrats with their heads buried in the sand (or their rear) can see it by now.
Oh you mean like the tool in the White House now serving big money elites. How is Trump not serving the elites. Giving large tax cuts to the wealthiest Americans and pumping more dollars into the military complex, yep he is for the average Joe and is really sticking it to those elites.
While your goal maybe to defeat Trump. Your biggest enemy is not Trump but the establishment owned by the oligarchs. You've been told who to vote, if you disobey. They will take your choices away. The writing on the wall started last year when the DNC was assembled with former Clinton people. These are the people who will determine who the Democrat nominee is going to be with or without your vote.
The Corporate and Banking Lobbyists own both parties.
The Corporate and Banking Lobbyists own both parties.
Would it be helpful to consider the 'corporate & banking lobbyists' as the de facto 4th branch?
In other words, deal with the realities & quit using scare tactics.
Quote:
... if we don't want to live in a survival-of-the-fittest society in which only the richest and most powerful can endure, government has to do three basic things: regulate corporations, provide social insurance against unforeseen hardships, and support public investments such as schools and public transportation.
The Same Old Scare Tactic about Socialism
For nearly a century, the right has derided every common sense, progressive advance as "socialism." Don't believe the hype.
Right and left ideology don't matter. What matters is concentration of power versus diffusion of power. It doesn't matter what the ideology is if a small number of people are given the power to interpret and enact it. They will twist the ideology to fit their small group interests.
Historically, empirically, socialism has turned out to be a dictatorship of planners. When the government owns a lot of the property, the government managers become de facto dictators.
Laissez faire capitalism is the same, in that it ends up being a controlled economy run by oligarchs, who may or may not be part of the government.
Don't be fooled by ideology. It is just a tool to convince you to give power to someone else in exchange for a promise that they do something for you in the future. The promise is usually broken.
Democracy and pragmatism should be your guiding lights.
If a political faction uses undemocratic tools (lobbying, the courts, the bureaucracy) to accomplish their goals they are up to no good. If a political faction demands adherence to an ideology, under the pretense of consistency or loyalty, they are up to no good.
Pick and choose what matters to you and what is in your best interest. Don't let ideology box you in. And don't think the ends justify the means if you use an undemocratic tool to enact your interests. They never do.
Right and left ideology don't matter. What matters is concentration of power versus diffusion of power. It doesn't matter what the ideology is if a small number of people are given the power to interpret and enact it. They will twist the ideology to fit their small group interests.
Historically, empirically, socialism has turned out to be a dictatorship of planners. When the government owns a lot of the property, the government managers become de facto dictators.
Laissez faire capitalism is the same, in that it ends up being a controlled economy run by oligarchs, who may or may not be part of the government.
Don't be fooled by ideology. It is just a tool to convince you to give power to someone else in exchange for a promise that they do something for you in the future. The promise is usually broken.
Democracy and pragmatism should be your guiding lights.
If a political faction uses undemocratic tools (lobbying, the courts, the bureaucracy) to accomplish their goals they are up to no good. If a political faction demands adherence to an ideology, under the pretense of consistency or loyalty, they are up to no good.
Pick and choose what matters to you and what is in your best interest. Don't let ideology box you in. And don't think the ends justify the means if you use an undemocratic tool to enact your interests. They never do.
Agree with much here. Absolutism, as it relates to ideology, is totalitarian, no matter the source.
Along with pragmatic democracy, reality is a guiding light.
Oh those elite South Carolina voters, controlling the Democratic Party, again.
Trump pulls this same populist nonsense as Sanders - if there is legitimate concern over his significant deficiencies, he rants about how some kind of sinister and powerful "hidden hands" that are trying to preserve the corrupt establishment are trying to defeat him, the noble "reformer".
There are a lot of Democratic voters who are worried that Bernie Sanders can't win the White House and there are a lot more who are worried that he can! That's what you saw on Super Tuesday, not some conspiracy.
During a recent "60 Minutes" appearance, where he continued to try to educate Americans on the redeeming qualities of Communist and Socialist revolutionaries, Sanders admitted that he didn't even have any kind of rigorous internal estimate as to what all his proposals will cost, he was unwilling to even throw a number out there. That's a huge red flag!
Sanders is proposing to double the spending of the Federal government, which necessarily means doubling tax revenue. The total Federal budget is currently $4.4 Trillion dollars annually, and Sanders' programs have been estimated to cost $5.5 Trillion to $6.0 Trillion dollars annually! And these numbers don't come from Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity or the Koch brothers, they come from highly respected economists presenting on NPR and in the Atlantic. I think the wealthy *should* pay more taxes, but the fact is that you can't get all that money from the rich, despite Sanders' rhetoric. The middle class will also be significantly impacted.
Another line they use is that "we'll just cut military spending" - while military spending here may be excessive, the reality is that even if you zeroed out ALL military spending (~$930 Billion in FY2019), even if you were happy to leave the US entirely defenseless against foreign militaries, this will only make a dent in the massive spending Sanders wants to bring on, so no, that's not nearly a sufficient answer either.
Sanders talks about the benefits of all these great programs he's going to create, but he doesn't talk about what a massive tax burden would do to economic growth or how it could drive businesses and money overseas.
Last edited by OutdoorLover; 03-05-2020 at 07:27 AM..
Our former democratic leaders have always told us it’s the economy
But new current democratic leaders tell us it’s about global warming, no borders, and white supremists
Right and left ideology don't matter. What matters is concentration of power versus diffusion of power. It doesn't matter what the ideology is if a small number of people are given the power to interpret and enact it. They will twist the ideology to fit their small group interests.
Historically, empirically, socialism has turned out to be a dictatorship of planners. When the government owns a lot of the property, the government managers become de facto dictators.
Laissez faire capitalism is the same, in that it ends up being a controlled economy run by oligarchs, who may or may not be part of the government.
Don't be fooled by ideology. It is just a tool to convince you to give power to someone else in exchange for a promise that they do something for you in the future. The promise is usually broken.
Democracy and pragmatism should be your guiding lights.
If a political faction uses undemocratic tools (lobbying, the courts, the bureaucracy) to accomplish their goals they are up to no good. If a political faction demands adherence to an ideology, under the pretense of consistency or loyalty, they are up to no good.
Pick and choose what matters to you and what is in your best interest. Don't let ideology box you in. And don't think the ends justify the means if you use an undemocratic tool to enact your interests. They never do.
Good post, and it describes why many of us moderate Democrats have come to see Trump and Sanders as two sides of the same coin. They get support by channeling anger and frustration. I think people are tired of it and just want to restore dignity and kindness to the Government, my guess is that if Mitt Romney had decided to challenge Trump in 2020 he would have won.
Trump pulls this same populist nonsense as Sanders - if there is legitimate concern over his significant deficiencies, he rants about how some kind of sinister and powerful "hidden hands" that are trying to preserve the corrupt establishment are trying to defeat him, the noble "reformer".
There are a lot of Democratic voters who are worried that Bernie Sanders can't win the White House and there are a lot more who are worried that he can! That's what you saw on Super Tuesday, not some conspiracy.
During a recent "60 Minutes" appearance, where he continued to try to educate Americans on the redeeming qualities of Communist and Socialist revolutionaries, Sanders admitted that he didn't even have any kind of rigorous internal estimate as to what all his proposals will cost, he was unwilling to even throw a number out there. That's a huge red flag!
Sanders is proposing to double the spending of the Federal government, which necessarily means doubling tax revenue. The total Federal budget is currently $4.4 Trillion dollars annually, and Sanders' programs have been estimated to cost $5.5 Trillion to $6.0 Trillion dollars annually! And these numbers don't come from Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity or the Koch brothers, they come from highly respected economists presenting on NPR and in the Atlantic. I think the wealthy *should* pay more taxes, but the fact is that you can't get all that money from the rich, despite Sanders' rhetoric. The middle class will also be significantly impacted.
Another line they use is that "we'll just cut military spending" - while military spending here may be excessive, the reality is that even if you zeroed out ALL military spending (~$930 Billion in FY2019), even if you were happy to leave the US entirely defenseless against foreign militaries, this will only make a dent in the massive spending Sanders wants to bring on, so no, that's not nearly a sufficient answer either.
Sanders talks about the benefits of all these great programs he's going to create, but he doesn't talk about what a massive tax burden would do to economic growth or how it could drive businesses and money overseas.
Great post. I like his policy proposals in theory, but I actually like to sit through how these policies will play out. A lot of Sander’s supporters don’t look into this. This doesn’t mean that there is some shadowy cabal controlled by moneyed interests, it just means that people are concerned because they analyze how these policies will play out and how it will affect the economy.
Good post, and it describes why many of us moderate Democrats have come to see Trump and Sanders as two sides of the same coin. They get support by channeling anger and frustration. I think people are tired of it and just want to restore dignity and kindness to the Government, my guess is that if Mitt Romney had decided to challenge Trump in 2020 he would have won.
If that's your take on my post then I think you're clueless.
Rejecting the left-right paradigm does not mean being in the center of the current paradigm.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
