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How 'bout this: By tomorrow, the corona will have killed more people than the USA lost in Vietnam.
You're off by more than a factor of 10. But you may become right, in a matter of weeks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnesthesiaMD
For the people that doubt it, I only wish I could take them to my hospital for 1 day. And then transport them back in time to the worst flu season in the last 25 years, where they wouldn’t even notice it was flu season in the hospital.
I don't doubt it at all. And I don't doubt that without shutdown-measures, the situation would indeed be 10X worse, as you say... or possibly even worse than that. Nor do I take lightly the suffering of the afflicted, or the heroic efforts of the responders.
What I doubt is our cumulative capacity to really make a difference. What I doubt is that there's anything that could be done, to avoid an eventual 100M casualties (or whatever it is) worldwide.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnesthesiaMD
...If 80% of the population were to get this, that is roughly 3 million deaths in this country, alone. Is that acceptable? ...
I don't know. Certainly it's not something to blithely dismiss. But do we really have a better alternative?
We can't simply conclude that your scenario is so heinous and horrible, that we should do absolutely anything imaginable, to prevent it. More importantly, we can not conclude that if we do actually do that "absolutely anything", that we will successfully prevent it.
You yourself mentioned that patients dependent on a ventilator will probably die anyway, not to mention suffer in the process. So I ask, without malice or conceit or cynicism: suppose that we had no ventilators at all? Suppose that our medical sophistication so collapsed, that we reverted to leaches and incantations. Would the casualty-count be all that much higher?
Sorry, you won't be able to do that..... social distancing.
Good one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant
I think the nature of the media is that it PROFITS from stuff like this.
How are the news media profiting? Reporters would be doing their jobs every day, regardless of the topic.
Broadcast news media, where ratings are up for the national outlets because so many are at home all day, is hiring extra staff to keep up with the ever-changing news and 24-hour demand. So even if they can demand more money from advertisers, that will balance out with extra expenses in covering the pandemic.
Print media is getting hit hard. Newspapers across the country are furloughing staff, cutting pages, reducing frequency because of reduced ad revenues. It's not going to be pretty.
You're off by more than a factor of 10. But you may become right, in a matter of weeks.
I don't doubt it at all. And I don't doubt that without shutdown-measures, the situation would indeed be 10X worse, as you say... or possibly even worse than that. Nor do I take lightly the suffering of the afflicted, or the heroic efforts of the responders.
What I doubt is our cumulative capacity to really make a difference. What I doubt is that there's anything that could be done, to avoid an eventual 100M casualties (or whatever it is) worldwide.
I don't know. Certainly it's not something to blithely dismiss. But do we really have a better alternative?
We can't simply conclude that your scenario is so heinous and horrible, that we should do absolutely anything imaginable, to prevent it. More importantly, we can not conclude that if we do actually do that "absolutely anything", that we will successfully prevent it.
You yourself mentioned that patients dependent on a ventilator will probably die anyway, not to mention suffer in the process. So I ask, without malice or conceit or cynicism: suppose that we had no ventilators at all? Suppose that our medical sophistication so collapsed, that we reverted to leaches and incantations. Would the casualty-count be all that much higher?
It's a legitimate question on ventilators. Still, people who are doomed to die from this disease at least deserve comforting care in a hospital setting....as they start to deteriorate...are they turned away to go home and die? This situation would be playing out by the thousands if actions had not been take to slow the spread. In my opinion, if I knew I had to go on a ventilator and I had no chance of getting off of it, I'd want to die at home with my family being the last thing I see, not some unfortunate nurse or Dr. who has also been thrust into this situation who can maybe hold my phone up. That specter alone should be enough to make people follow every precaution possible with this thing.
Well, that is another subject now isn't it? You went all drama queen on how people are going to be evicted and starve.
I am a registered Republican BTW.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartacus
And I am a registered Democrat, as I voted for Bernie Sanders in the primaries this time.
Neither one of these representations means jack.
However, if you try to represent yourself as a conservative, I will call you a liar to your face.
Actually, injecting my two cents', I think that both of you are actually closer to the center than to either end of the political spectrum, which I why I find myself so often agreeing with both of you! (depending on the subject)
Actually, injecting my two cents', I think that both of you are actually closer to the center than to either end of the political spectrum, which I why I find myself so often agreeing with both of you! (depending on the subject)
Thank you for that. Yes, I do find myself normally center. Financially I've always leaned Republican and socially more Democrat, but not on the outer fringes for either. I think they are ALL nuts. I think parties should be done away with, and almost every politician voted out. I despise politics and politicians.
I worked for a Republican Gov and they were quite moderate. But during that time I learned I dislike politicians more than I thought. And that bar was pretty low to begin with.
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How are the news media profiting? Reporters would be doing their jobs every day, regardless of the topic.
Broadcast news media, where ratings are up for the national outlets because so many are at home all day, is hiring extra staff to keep up with the ever-changing news and 24-hour demand. So even if they can demand more money from advertisers, that will balance out with extra expenses in covering the pandemic.
Print media is getting hit hard. Newspapers across the country are furloughing staff, cutting pages, reducing frequency because of reduced ad revenues. It's not going to be pretty.
Because that is their business.....to profit off of news. I am not saying that what they are doing is unethical and its not their fault. They are taking advantage of Americans being glued to this topic. I probably check the news once a day....in the morning. Otherwise it becomes too much. It osculates between "we are doomed" to "There is a cure" and it really plays and wears on a person. It's attention grabbing.
Is it not possible that the nocebo effect could be elevating the severity of the illness in many people?.
There is no level of nocebo effect that will give a person a pA02 of 40-60 while on 100% O2 with a PEEP of 15 (to cite just one example I've heard from an online colleague). That takes ARDS, not "the powers of the mind."
I am continually amazed at the sentiments expressed on this site. I am really not used to dealing with people who believe in conspiracy theories, hold anecdotes dear, fear others are out to get them, and are skeptical of rational science. Every non-physician is absolutely sure THEY KNOW medicine and science and are skeptical of those who have been professionals in such endeavors for decades.
I am used to socializing only with other physicians. Thus when I hear such views, it is shocking that there are individuals out there who believe such things.
I'm not a doc or other health care provider but it shocks me, too, so I can only imagine what it must be like for you and AMD....
The media outlets are making a killing right now. People are home glued to the tv watching all the corona coverage, which is basically 24/7 now. That means ratings. Ratings=money.
It's that simple.
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