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Old 04-01-2020, 10:01 PM
 
Location: Missouri, USA
5,671 posts, read 4,339,520 times
Reputation: 2610

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy ol' Man View Post
Yes you were, vague is a good description for those on the left.. Look at pedo Joe for instance, if you want the perfect description of vague.. Another word for it is "Bat Crap Crazy..!"
I'm not on the left. I'm interested in the long term survival of our species. I don't really care about individuals or nations. That's my political orientation. Anything to do with taxes or universal healthcare or immigration or public schools just tends to be stuff that's totally outside my interest. My brain is off on Mars somewhere most of the time. Start talking about whether or not it should be legal to design sentient machines...then you'll see some of my political views.

I do tend to be anti-conservative though...because of the anti-science bent they're more often on than the left.

 
Old 04-01-2020, 10:02 PM
 
33,867 posts, read 16,913,600 times
Reputation: 17135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clintone View Post
It'll kill a lot more than that. We have no choice but to completely screw the economy. .
which will be in an irreversible way, btw.

A large % of hotels, restaurants, and malls will likely never reopen after such a long period without cash flow.

They employ millions of citizens, and the bulk of staff, rank and file, would not be re-employable in most other industries. So a full lockdown philosophy essentially writes off their lifetime work history to come, more or less. Robotics would have he same effects, to a smaller degree, and extended over many years of job elimination. Can the nation take the hits of tens of millions of jobs, large % forever, a hit that took weeks?

NY Governor Cuomo talked the last two days about a balance of protecting health as much as possible, and re-opening the economy in stages. He was talking of it as if starting during Q2.
 
Old 04-01-2020, 10:17 PM
 
Location: Missouri, USA
5,671 posts, read 4,339,520 times
Reputation: 2610
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post
which will be in an irreversible way, btw.

A large % of hotels, restaurants, and malls will likely never reopen after such a long period without cash flow.
I don't know how most hotels could survive no matter what. How many people are going to want to stay at a hotel, where strangers were on your beds, after going through something like New York went through? I figure most of them are inevitably done.

Quote:
They employ millions of citizens, and the bulk of staff, rank and file, would not be re-employable in most other industries. So a full lockdown philosophy essentially writes off their lifetime work history to come, more or less. Robotics would have he same effects, to a smaller degree, and extended over many years of job elimination. Can the nation take the hits of tens of millions of jobs, large % forever, a hit that took weeks?

NY Governor Cuomo talked the last two days about a balance of protecting health as much as possible, and re-opening the economy in stages. He was talking of it as if starting during Q2.
Restaurants where I'm at are still doing curb-side pickups.

I'm wondering if most of the jobs most affected by the virus now are inevitably doomed, regardless of what we do...the movie theaters...the theme parks...the hotels...I can't see enough people entering those places to keep them running regardless of whether we mandate their closings or not. If we let this spread out wherever it will...people will have visions of flooding hospitals fresh in their minds, and we're going to do the same kind of social avoidance we're doing now anyway, just on a smaller scale, and it'll take a little longer to start.
 
Old 04-01-2020, 10:22 PM
 
33,867 posts, read 16,913,600 times
Reputation: 17135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clintone View Post

Restaurants where I'm at are still doing curb-side pickups.

I'm wondering if most of the jobs most affected by the virus now are inevitably doomed, regardless of what we do...the movie theaters...the theme parks...the hotels...I can't see enough people entering those places to keep them running regardless of whether we mandate their closings or not. If we let this spread out wherever it will...people will have visions of flooding hospitals fresh in their minds, and we're going to do the same kind of social avoidance we're doing now anyway, just on a smaller scale, and it'll take a little longer to start.

Perhaps so.


say hello to permanent EU like levels of unemployment for those w/o degrees. 20% as a low US goal sound ok to you? Not for 2 months, not for 2 years, but forever.
 
Old 04-01-2020, 10:33 PM
 
Location: Missouri, USA
5,671 posts, read 4,339,520 times
Reputation: 2610
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post
Perhaps so.


say hello to permanent EU like levels of unemployment for those w/o degrees. 20% as a low US goal sound ok to you? Not for 2 months, not for 2 years, but forever.
You think we could do better through letting the virus spread everywhere? I'm not trying to be combative. I just want to know your thought process.

That's the question...is chaos and panic and lots of death and people getting traumatized...and many business owners (many of whom are in their 60's) dying...but the economy opening up earlier going to be better for our nation over the long run than a more controlled, less panicked, economic decay through mandated closings...over a longer time period?

This type of thing is hard to say.
 
Old 04-01-2020, 10:36 PM
 
28,122 posts, read 12,517,812 times
Reputation: 15331
Its NOT trump saying these things, he does not write the speeches.


This is coming from FEMA for the most part, they have serious power and authority in times like this, they can withhold and alter news and information if they think it may lead to a public panic, run on banks, anarchy in the streets, etc.
 
Old 04-01-2020, 10:47 PM
 
Location: Missouri, USA
5,671 posts, read 4,339,520 times
Reputation: 2610
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
Its NOT trump saying these things, he does not write the speeches.


This is coming from FEMA for the most part, they have serious power and authority in times like this, they can withhold and alter news and information if they think it may lead to a public panic, run on banks, anarchy in the streets, etc.
Makes sense.

Again though...from my perspective...this is not calming. Bernie Sanders talking about how we're in an unprecedented disaster calms me down...because it lets me know an authority figure is taking this seriously. Trump's merry, casual early attitude scared the heck out of me.
 
Old 04-01-2020, 10:50 PM
 
Location: Chicago Area
12,687 posts, read 6,712,646 times
Reputation: 6593
I don't like him. Never have. He's always rubbed me the wrong way. He comes across as the high school bully that never got over being the bully.

I do like some but not all of the things he's doing.
  • He's got the Immigration thing half right. We do need to control the border. We don't need less immigration.
  • He's singing exactly the right song when it comes to the USA making better trade deals. This was and is a big enough problem, I've gone single-issue voter on it in the past. This alone might force me to vote for the guy, since nobody else was ever willing to do a damn thing about outsourcing all our jobs overseas.
  • He moved the US embassy to Jerusalem, which isn't so much something I wanted, but it proves that he's willing to follow through when he promises something.
  • He's better than any recent president on war, but still much worse than I'd like. I'd rather bring all the troops home everywhere. Trump didn't get us into a fight over Syria and he didn't get us into a fight with Iran. He's probably going to pull the troops out of Afghanistan too. All moves in the right direction, but I'm more anti-war than him.
  • He's polar opposite wrong when it comes to Prohibition II -- aka the War on Drugs. I'm for complete decriminalization and he's stuck in the 1980's Drug War mentality.
  • He's more pro-life than anyone president in my lifetime, which is excellent, but he's also not doing anything substantive.
  • He hasn't been one to grab up power for himself, which is good, but he's not shrinking government either. We desperately need less government in almost every category. Emergencies, infrastructure, military and supplementing the states' police efforts: We don't need our federal government to be doing much else.
  • He's good at boosting the economy.
  • He's done a better job with Coronavirus than anyone else would have, but there's definitely room for improvement.
  • I definitely don't like him as a public speaker. His speech mannerisms have always irritated me.
  • As to his personal morality, he's a shameless disgusting serial-adulterous lech and I've got no respect for how he has lived his personal life.

The man is a mixed bag for sure. Unfortunately, the Dems are on the wrong side of too many issues and we can't afford for so many terrible ideas to gain any real power in this country. Also, the pickins are mighty slim for Libertarian. So ... I'm probably voting Trump this year.
 
Old 04-01-2020, 10:53 PM
 
33,867 posts, read 16,913,600 times
Reputation: 17135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clintone View Post
You think we could do better through letting the virus spread everywhere? I'm not trying to be combative. I just want to know your thought process.

.
We can do better via balance which Cuomo has alluded to. Not spreading everywhere. But life is about balancing risk vs reward. 100 die in car accidents per day. Want to ban cars?

I am for opening the economy up in stages. I would favor assuming we peak 4/15-4/30 per projections, to see some retail reopen in May, perhaps starting by opening say 25% of each mall up, in a scattered pattern (not adjacent stores, but every 4th store). I'd favor the same with restaurants, open 15-30 days post peak, every 4th table up.

Wait 30 days MORE, open every OTHER store, every OTHER table.

Movie theatres I'd want smaller % opened in May up due to tighter density seating.

Sports stadiums, when open, open EVERY 4th pair of seats at first, and no more than 2 consecutive seats per group.

Cash flow will otherwise kill industries, and sharply increase US suicides. Suicides are deaths also. Even w/o Nightline stories.
 
Old 04-01-2020, 10:55 PM
 
28,122 posts, read 12,517,812 times
Reputation: 15331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clintone View Post
Makes sense.

Again though...from my perspective...this is not calming. Bernie Sanders talking about how we're in an unprecedented disaster calms me down...because it lets me know an authority figure is taking this seriously. Trump's merry, casual early attitude scared the heck out of me.
I think thats why they keep issuing fairly short time frames of restrictions, they are trying to make people believe, this will end relatively soon, (as soon as they can get thru 15 days, now 30 days, later it will another 30 days, and so on).


Short time frames give people hope, if they think everything is going back to normal within a month or two, they are not going to go withdraw all their money from the bank, or start looting, etc.)
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