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Old 04-06-2020, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Del Rio, TN
39,849 posts, read 26,477,889 times
Reputation: 25741

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Sadly, we're learning the price of our idiotic tax and regulatory structure. The things that made manufacturing in this company uncompetitive and drove companies to manufacture in China and other nations....rather than here. If only...there were something we could do about that. Like, oh, maybe rolling our corporate tax rate back to where we were competitive with the rest of the world. Rolling back expensive but ineffective regulations and compliance costs. Perhaps, even, a special tax of some sort could be levied on products made in foreign nations when imported into this nation, in order to offset the higher wages paid to American workers. If only someone in a leadership position could come up with these ideas....

What do you think? Will candidate Biden or Sanders embrace these things that favor American workers, rather than corporations?
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Old 04-06-2020, 04:55 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
14,834 posts, read 7,406,673 times
Reputation: 8966
Quote:
Originally Posted by swagger View Post
You underestimate (or completely ignore) the influence of consumer demands for increasingly shrinking prices. Everyone's always looking for the best deal, right? All that has an effect, you know.

It's an extraordinarily complicated topic, international trade. Everyone thinks they're an expert. I'm no expert, but I know that the consumer is the biggest driver of what companies do or don't do. They're the ones with the money that you so eloquently pointed out is coveted by these companies. If consumers wanted "Made in USA" more than they wanted the extra dollars that it would cost, we'd see a lot more US made consumer products.

Another ignored difference is the regulatory structure in the U.S. vs other countries, particularly China. There's a lot of reasons we don't make things like computer chips and chemical components here. A big one, which is not usually mentioned by the big-government-loving media, or big government itself, is the environmental red tape involved in doing it, if it's possible to do here at all.

Everyone talks a good game about buying "made in the USA," but few are willing to support the companies already producing here, instead choosing the cheaper, "made in China" option.

Consider the political outrage/blowback if a president or governor sliced through the red tape and allowed a chemical plant to open somewhere without the currently required environmental impact studies being done first. Those can and do delay projects for years, or even indefinitely.

There are a lot of worthy problems to talk about when discussing "Made in the USA." Capitalism, as an economic system, is not the root of any of them.
Spot on. The frugality demands of the US consumer ultimately hollowed out US manufacturing.

People were not willing to pay more for US made products, even if they were better quality.

If the present situation has prompted a change of heart for people on that decision, then we may see some manufacturing come back.
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Old 04-06-2020, 05:00 PM
 
Location: CO/UT/AZ/NM Catch me if you can!
6,926 posts, read 6,931,152 times
Reputation: 16509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
I buy what I choose to buy. No one forces me.

As a matter of fact, the US is only slightly behind China in manufacturing, even thought their population is many times the size of ours. Whoever tells you that US manufacturing it totally destroyed is lying to you.
Name me just one brand of TV or android phone or tablet or laptop or a single line of men's or woman's clothing that is made in the USA. Sometimes you can find a pair of shoes, but you have to look long and hard for them.

No one forces you to buy a shirt, but you are going to be going around half dressed if you are a holdout for an item made in the US of A.
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Old 04-06-2020, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Free State of Florida
25,685 posts, read 12,765,268 times
Reputation: 19251
Quote:
Originally Posted by elan View Post
Our companies shouldn't be over there, China sucks.
Chinese company's shouldn't be over here, China sucks.

Anti-China sentiment is going to shoot Trump out of a cannon November 3rd, and he'll land in the leather chair behind his desk in the Oval Office every Orange hair perfectly in place.

Joe Biden will be made to stay after class, and write on the chalk board 10,000 times...

I WILL NOT OUTSOURCE AMERICAN JOBS TO CHINA ANY MORE

I WILL NOT OUTSOURCE AMERICAN JOBS TO CHINA ANY MORE

I WILL NOT OUTSOURCE AMERICAN JOBS TO CHINA ANY MORE

I WILL NOT OUTSOURCE AMERICAN JOBS TO CHINA ANY MORE

I WILL NOT OUTSOURCE AMERICAN JOBS TO CHINA ANY MORE

I WILL NOT OUTSOURCE AMERICAN JOBS TO CHINA ANY MORE

I WILL NOT OUTSOURCE AMERICAN JOBS TO CHINA ANY MORE

I WILL NOT OUTSOURCE AMERICAN JOBS TO CHINA ANY MORE

I WILL NOT OUTSOURCE AMERICAN....UMMM...THINGS TO....UMMM...THAT PLACE ANY MORE
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Old 04-06-2020, 05:15 PM
 
17,441 posts, read 9,259,831 times
Reputation: 11906
Quote:
Originally Posted by elan View Post
Our companies shouldn't be over there, China sucks.
Before it was China, it was Japan.

Donald Trump has been saying all this since the mid 1980’s.
He campaigned on it. Our very existence as a Nation should not be outsourced and now we see it’s our very lives. The UniParty has allowed, even promoted the outsourcing of Pharmaceuticals.... these foreign nations can cut us off at Will.

Welcome to the Transformed America ... beholden on Communists.
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Old 04-06-2020, 05:22 PM
 
9,617 posts, read 6,059,788 times
Reputation: 3884
While not specifically speaking of China, Ross Perot gave us a very visual warning in 1992. Despite what others say, 10s of thousands of jobs have left this country.

Regulations stunt productivity growth. Yet we deride a president who has dared to take on the regulatory apparatus.

Illegal immigration undermines the least among us. Yet, at every turn a president who promised to do something about the problem is tied up in courts for months over virtually every immigration, legal and illegal, for months.

We get what we deserve in hyper-partisan slap fests.
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Old 04-06-2020, 05:33 PM
 
2,906 posts, read 1,981,048 times
Reputation: 3484
Even as a high school kid back in the late '70s & early '80s, I knew it was a national security issue allowing the Rust Belt to be created when the Big 3 automakers started buying parts from overseas, something the UAW members at the time eventually agreed to after a long contract negotiation (to protect their own pay & Cadillac benefits/pensions). That's the type of unfettered capitalism I rant and rave about from time to time on CD. A nation has to protect itself, and our political leaders, our business leaders and our union leaders sold us all down the river in favor of their own personal interests.

And btw, it isn't just a case of China not allowing medical products to be shipped overseas, they had their own citizens raiding our stores of all medical supplies they could get their hands on back in January in places like the United States & Australia to send back to China. That's right, Chinese citizens bought all of our masks, etc., in the stores to sell to their fellow Chinese citizens back in China to make a profit. Here's a video made by two guys, one South African & one American, who used to live in China for years. Most of the first half hour of the video they talk about this issue. For some reason I haven't been able to get videos to post on here from Youtube so I'll just have to share the link. It's worth watching:

https://youtu.be/R7VE7-dn8MY


(Note: You'll have to back it up to the beginning. Even though I told it to start at 0:00 it still picked up where I stopped watching the video earlier.)
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Old 04-06-2020, 05:41 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,424,992 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by swagger View Post
You underestimate (or completely ignore) the influence of consumer demands for increasingly shrinking prices. Everyone's always looking for the best deal, right? All that has an effect, you know.

It's an extraordinarily complicated topic, international trade. Everyone thinks they're an expert. I'm no expert, but I know that the consumer is the biggest driver of what companies do or don't do. They're the ones with the money that you so eloquently pointed out is coveted by these companies. If consumers wanted "Made in USA" more than they wanted the extra dollars that it would cost, we'd see a lot more US made consumer products.

Another ignored difference is the regulatory structure in the U.S. vs other countries, particularly China. There's a lot of reasons we don't make things like computer chips and chemical components here. A big one, which is not usually mentioned by the big-government-loving media, or big government itself, is the environmental red tape involved in doing it, if it's possible to do here at all.

Everyone talks a good game about buying "made in the USA," but few are willing to support the companies already producing here, instead choosing the cheaper, "made in China" option.

Consider the political outrage/blowback if a president or governor sliced through the red tape and allowed a chemical plant to open somewhere without the currently required environmental impact studies being done first. Those can and do delay projects for years, or even indefinitely.

There are a lot of worthy problems to talk about when discussing "Made in the USA." Capitalism, as an economic system, is not the root of any of them.
Foolishness, Americans buy cheap goods for three reasons:

1. Cultural marketing by the private and public sphere which makes are social lives based on consumption. What did Bush say after 9/11? Buy buy buy. Because he knows our economy is set up to crash if people don't.

2. Cost of public goods (housing, healthcare, etc.) is held up artificially high by speculators so people on a tight budget shift towards cheap goods. Also more expensive local products will mean smaller revenue for the government.

3. Market monopoly in many cases (many things CANNOT be made in America because we have lost the expertise).

If we had local production people would have to buy less to stay in budget and companies could get more revenue from repair rather constant selling and trashing of items. It will not only better the environment, but it will also make us better people.

It is our choice to make.
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Old 04-06-2020, 09:01 PM
 
Location: NY
16,028 posts, read 6,828,406 times
Reputation: 12279
Quote:
Originally Posted by t206 View Post
I've heard many accounts from realtors and investors say that the Chinese like to lock up their cash in US real estate because it makes it impossible for the Chinese government to confiscate their wealth that way.
The following is only my opinion:
Change the Laws that when you cash out you can't take it over seas.
Money in America stays in America.
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Old 04-06-2020, 09:08 PM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,433,136 times
Reputation: 9092
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Retired View Post
The following is only my opinion:
Change the Laws that when you cash out you can't take it over seas.
Money in America stays in America.
Putin himself tried to do that in Russia. How far do you think it's going to go here? No better than keeping the foreign money out of the country that makes things such as buying a home impossible for your average American.
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