Mail In Ballots, What is the Problem? (McCain, Representatives, accuse)
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You can? Are you sure? That may not be allowed in the upcoming elections.
Some of your arguments were already refuted toward the beginning of the thread, yet here they are, being repeated again. Signatures and other ID verifiers are checked on mail-in ballots. If they weren't, there would be no point in having mail-in ballots at all, would there? These arguments sound like one side is terrified, that if there are no polling stations, and everyone votes from home, they won't be able to employ their usual vote suppression tactics: rigged voting machines, last-minute moving of polling stations, closure of polling stations in some precincts causing interminable lines forcing people to wait for hours to vote, etc.
Try looking at this logically, instead of with your obvious bias toward letting anyone vote based on limited verification.
But before we get to my point, lets take a step back.
Please provide a link to evidence/proof that shows where rigged voting machines have been found?
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As to my arguments being refuted, ballot harvesting has occurred with evidence of abuse.
Regardless, and back to mail in voting, when typical numbers of mail in ballots are received, there is staff to handle those. But you must know that those votes, while eventually calculated, are not processed for many days. That is in part because most elections (state and federal) declare winners based on the votes placed at polling stations.
So if you were to take all those votes and make them mail in ballots, rest assured not only could it take week to get final results, but there would be attempted shenanigans going on with partisan people who do not respect the integrity of our election system.
That would be the case if someone won by a large enough margin not to require a ballot verification and recount.
So when you talk about signature verification and the like, rest assured that would not be done in the initial phase, or the process could take a month to verify every ballot.
Frankly, one of the problems is that those who are caught and proved you have engaged in election fraud are not punished enough to deter others.
My view is that anyone convicted of election fraud should have a mandatory minimum of 10 years in jail, without the possibility of parole for "good behavior".
That type of deterrent would keep most partisan fanatics from engaging in it.
I don't trust a system where ballots are mailed in. Too many hands touch the ballots.
I trust a system where I mark a ballot, slide it into a machine, and my vote is instantly tallied. Well, "trust" is a strong word. I prefer this system.
The fewer hands that touch your ballot, the better.
Ballot harvesting should be made illegal. I think there's at least one lawsuit under way to get it overturned in California.
I don't trust a system where ballots are mailed in. Too many hands touch the ballots.
I trust a system where I mark a ballot, slide it into a machine, and my vote is instantly tallied. Well, "trust" is a strong word. I prefer this system.
The fewer hands that touch your ballot, the better.
Ballot harvesting should be made illegal. I think there's at least one lawsuit under way to get it overturned in California.
Ballots are sealed and not opened until a counter puts it into the machine. I find it far easier than making sure I can get to my polling place. Plus for the smaller races and proposition votes I have the information at home and don't have to worry about taking it with me.
What would you consider ballot harvesting? Would it be ballot harvesting for me to take my parents' ballots to the post office since I work near one?
Try looking at this logically, instead of with your obvious bias toward letting anyone vote based on limited verification.
But before we get to my point, lets take a step back. Please provide a link to evidence/proof that shows where rigged voting machines have been found?
Lopategui v. Vigil-Giron, 2005/2006 federal court case.
a 2004 contested election in New Mexico resulted in a very close election between two candidates vying for the same seat. Patricia Lopategui v. Rebecca Vigil-Giron sought a “meaningful inspection of their electronic voting machines” to verify that the reported results for the race were correct. In that election, voters reported seeing on the ballot screen their vote switch from the candidate they supported to another candidate.-
Highly disturbing facts and allegations have already emerged in this well-run but under publicized case. For example, in one majority Hispanic precinct, the voting machines produced exactly zero votes for John Kerry. More issues will arise as the Plaintiffs’ legal team digs deeper into the highly irregular events of Election Day 2004. Remarkably, these events occurred at a much higher rate in predominantly Hispanic and Native American precincts.
Quote:
If you were a Hispanic American or Native American voting in New Mexico on November 4, 2004, you may have experienced some of the following:
The most likely problem was simply to find out that your vote for president or other offices was not counted. Ballots with missing votes are called “under votes.” In New Mexico there were around 23,000 under votes out of a total of about 750 thousand votes cast. That is a rate of 3.0% for the state, or six times the expected rate of under votes in a presidential election. In Hispanic and Native American precincts under votes range from 6% to as high as 49%. One poll worker described watching 141 voters come to the precinct, enter the polling booth where a voting machine awaited, stay for a short period, and leave. At the end of the day, there was only one vote counted for president. That’s a 99% plus rate of under votes for that precinct.
Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 04-16-2020 at 08:38 PM..
Maybe I read too quickly, but I don't think anyone posted about what effect a largely mail-in election would have on the concept of the "secret ballot". Isn't the idea that a particular vote cannot be easily traced back to the identity of the voter part of the foundation of our democracy? After all, the fact that Kim Jong Un gets something like 99% approval in every election isn't exactly an accident - anyone who votes against him likely gets a knock on the door at midnight, or gets their food rations cut.
Personally, I'd love to be able to vote either by mail or electronically, but there has to be some way I can verify that my vote was counted as I intended. Problem is, that kills the whole "secret ballot" thing.
Not at all. You track the envelope, not the ballot. Once the envelope is certified, the ballot is removed and placed in an anonymous stack for counting. When you verify your ballot online, what you are actually verifying is the empty envelope. Nobody knows how you marked the ballot.
A mail in ballot can be completed by some one other than the actual person it was mailed to. My parents were in their late 90's last presidential election. They weren't interested in voting for either candidate in the last election so I threw them in the garbage. My crazy far left sister had a fit lecturing me on how they have the right to vote. Then she dug them out of the garbage and completed them for them, basically allowing her to vote three times. I wanted to give her a lecture on how wrong that is but, she has that whole left mentality thing that if you're not with me you're against me and I love her so I just let it go.
If anybody thinks that's okay...what if she voted for Trump three times, would it still be okay?
People can help a disabled person vote at a traditional polling place too. Everyone has the right to vote and have their vote counted. You were wrong to discard your parents' ballot and your sister was right.
The problem is obvious. Ballots voting for republicans mysteriously disappear while only ballots voting for dems remain...
Looks like this time around it will be the Republican voters who disappear. The next time the dems have control, I hope they focus on a new Voting Rights Act that will block Republican voter suppression.
People can help a disabled person vote at a traditional polling place too. Everyone has the right to vote and have their vote counted. You were wrong to discard your parents' ballot and your sister was right.
Yes, his parents had a right to vote but they didn't want to vote. His sister chose who their parents were going to vote for. In what way does that make the sister right?
Rest assured partisan corruption is always a concern, especially when our country is so divided.
Regardless of which party cheats more (everyone knows which one is worse), mail in balloting is rife for abuse. Not only is no ID checked, but you have people who passed away sending in ballots, and now with "ballot harvesting" you can have a partisan group pick up and send in ballots for only those whom they want to win.
Your ID is checked when you register to vote.
Voter rolls are checked against death records. Dead people do not get to vote. For that matter, it's really tough for a dead person to provide a verifiable signature.
Ballot harvesting is a felony. A bunch of North Carolina Republicans are learning that to their sorrow.
Just let people vote. It's their right as Americans.
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