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Not sure you actually understand libertarian ideology. It’s pretty explicit about not condoning corporate welfare. If you’re talking about free trade, then there’s some substance there. I’m actually rethinking my own stance on that right now.
Libertarianism is a great way to think in terms of broad ideology - let gay marrieds defend their marijuana fields with assault rifles - but the deeper I dig in, the less faithful I get. Libertarianism is a good bedrock mindset to have, as long as you can translate it into more realpolitik terms.
No True Scotsman arguments are not very convincing.
I don’t care about theoretical libertarianism. I care about the real-world libertarianism that is destroying the lives of everyone but the corporate elite.
Maybe Soviet communism wasn’t “real” communism? I don’t care. It’s irrelevant. What matters is the form of communism that actually affected the real world. The same goes for libertarianism.
I don’t care about theoretical libertarianism. I care about the real-world libertarianism that is destroying the lives of everyone but the corporate elite.
Maybe Soviet communism wasn’t “real” communism? I don’t care. It’s irrelevant. What matters is the form of communism that actually affected the real world. The same goes for libertarianism.
You get so much wrong. At least you are also so completely unaware that you're able to spout such nonsense off with complete confidence. It really is a sight to behold
No True Scotsman arguments are not very convincing.
I don’t care about theoretical libertarianism. I care about the real-world libertarianism that is destroying the lives of everyone but the corporate elite.
Maybe Soviet communism wasn’t “real” communism? I don’t care. It’s irrelevant. What matters is the form of communism that actually affected the real world. The same goes for libertarianism.
I don’t really see much libertarianism in the real world. What you see as a protection of the corporate elite is maybe kinda libertarianish, but not really. We would also have reined in our foreign interventionism, not gone to a fiat currency, bailed out anybody in 2008, or continued to drone anyone straight through to this day.
As far as communism goes, historically awful, but then there’s China...awful for people but arguably better at capitalism than we are, with or without libertarianism.
Since when were the libertarians anything but a tiny minority in the Republican party?
Both major parties are dominated by the authoritarians, sure you can find a Rand Paul libertarian leaning Republican every now and again, but they are the token few at best.
Finding a libertarian in a major party is like finding a fiscally responsible politician.
Since Reagan republicans have preached market efficiency, meaning international investors and equity firms should have a moral right to control capital and move it overseas and into a few big cities, while small communities and average people lost all their economic power.
And when people fought back republicans would wag their fingers and say they don't work as hard as a chinese slave and go pound salt.
Now they are breaking free from the wall street first ideology and creating an actual conservative ideology.
I'm not conservative but if I were I'd be angry about how traditional institutions and family values were being crushed for global capitalism and mega corporations who wanted kill their way of life.
Since Reagan republicans have preached market efficiency, meaning international investors and equity firms should have a moral right to control capital and move it overseas and into a few big cities, while small communities and average people lost all their economic power.
And when people fought back republicans would wag their fingers and say they don't work as hard as a chinese slave and go pound salt.
Now they are breaking free from the wall street first ideology and creating an actual conservative ideology.
I'm not conservative but if I were I'd be angry about how traditional institutions and family values were being crushed for global capitalism and mega corporations who wanted kill their way of life.
At least now they are waking up.
Well, you're a communist, so obviously not a conservative and IMO that's why in your mind you think that Republicans were libertarian.....because they weren't entirely authoritarian and to a communist that's what you might think libertarianism is.
For sure Republicans have become far more authoritarian over the years and have moved a bit to the left and I understand why you'd like that, but they were never libertarian. The Republican party right now basically is where the Democratic party was in the 90's....as evidenced by the fact that they are led by a 90's Democrat.
That said, I think the pendulum is about to swing back from the authoritarian side, at least I hope so. Right now we have people actively rooting to become a police state, people who are informing on their neighbors for not blindly obeying the directives of the state. The Karen's rule the day right now. That kind of thing is so disgusting that it pushes rational people away....I just hope there's enough of them left.
Losing what stranglehold? Libertarians have never had a stranglehold.
The first stirrings of libertarian thought came about back in the Sixties, most of them on campus where young conservatives could not reconcile their opposition to Communism (and other forms of collectivism) with military conscription in order to fight a war we did not intend to win. The writings of Ayn Rand (like Marx, an atheistic, completely-secular Jew) and Murray Rothbard were further bolstered by The Death of Politics, an award-winning article by "rational anarchist" Karl Hess Jr, and published in Playboy in the fall of 1970.
I was an undergraduate during those heady years, and in the sheltered atmosphere of a campus, it was easy to dream of a completely-privatized "society without coercion", but the powers-that-were within the campus conservative group Young Americans for Freedom wanted nothing to do with this, and a year or two within the constant repression of the business world brought all of us down to earth.
But while unsuited to realpolitik, the ideological basis of libertarianism has continued to gain ground within the theoretical underpinning of broad-spectrum "conservative" thought. I personally know of three Republican former members of Congress who subscribed to libertarian ideals during their formative years, one of whom (Rep. Dana Rohrabacher R-CA) served for thirty years.
As no-less-formidable an opponent than Norman Thomas observed on a number of occasions, the purpose of an ideologically-based movement within a major party is not to capture that party, but to promote those concepts and ideas which can be woven into that party's fabric over time. Judging from the advancement if libertarian thought from a fringe movement to about half of writings in conservative journals (and a corresponding decline in the influence of traditionalist and absolutist conservatives), we have advanced considerably -- but I wouldn't characterize this as a "stranglehold".
Last edited by 2nd trick op; 04-22-2020 at 08:03 PM..
This is a weird thread since I’m not any kind of libertarian who would be in good standing with the party or CATO. But to say libertarianism has had anything more than a dream of having a stranglehold on the Republicrats...naw, homie. Esta loco en la cabeza!
The tea party tried and failed miserably. Guys like Massey and Rand kinda play the Republican game to do libertarian things, but Republicans, especially in the Trump era, don’t seem that interested in anything particularly libertarian. I hear a lot more talk of things which sound libertarian from disaffected leftists and democrats, which surprises nobody more than me.
Libertarians were never a large part of the Republican Party....who made up that falsehood? Maybe 10% I'd guess......
Good riddance. Libertarians are like agnostics....just confused.......Pick a side.....
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