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The unfunded liability/pension system of New York City makes it impossible for it to just declare bankruptcy.
Taxpayers are paying for the private pension of coal miners plus their health care. Why? The pension failed. We taxpayers are paying for the coal miner's retirement. Reason number a billion for why blue states are getting ripped off by red states.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesychios
This can not be stressed enough.
Those states that resent the Federal government the most tend to be the biggest takers. I don't want to pick on Kentucky specifically, or Kentuckians in general (most are fine people) but their state is right in there amongst the most blessed with Federal dollars and the least appreciative.
We have all heard the old adage (false, as it turns out) about "I am from the government and I am here to help". It is intended to pour scorn on the government.
But actually the Federal government has been helping them all along, and many of the beneficiaries don't seem to understand that. The Tennessee Valley and southern Appalachian region (and similar areas) were underdeveloped and depressed for generations, and we as a nation determined to reverse that. Many Federal projects designed to protect the people and enhance the quality of their lives we put in place specifically to address their issues.
That's where you get all of those military bases and infrastructure projects: roads, powers generation, flood control, research laboratories etc. The Federal government DID come to help, and the people of states like mine (the major economic engines in this economy) paid for that.
These 'small government' ingrates deserve a good smackdown, without us they would be floundering wrecks.
Another reason I would just as soon see the country split and force red states to pay their own costs. Why should blue states pay for red state's infrastructure? Why should we pay for their broadband, schools, highways, pensions, health coverage, disability and everything else? Why should we send a BILLION dollars to Kentucky other than McConnell wants it in order to get re-elected? Blue states would be better off keeping their money and telling red states to go pound sand.
Taxpayers are paying for the private pension of coal miners plus their health care. Why? The pension failed. We taxpayers are paying for the coal miner's retirement. Reason number a billion for why blue states are getting ripped off by red states.
Another reason I would just as soon see the country split and force red states to pay their own costs. Why should blue states pay for red state's infrastructure? Why should we pay for their broadband, schools, highways, pensions, health coverage, disability and everything else? Why should we send a BILLION dollars to Kentucky other than McConnell wants it in order to get re-elected? Blue states would be better off keeping their money and telling red states to go pound sand.
before you could even think about that you would have to define exactly what a red state is and what a blue state is...based on what variables... for example nearly all 50 states were "red" for the 1980 and 1984 elction...another example is NY...in supposedly BLUE NY, trump won 75% of the state.... what gave him a loss in newYork State is NYC...… New York State....out of 62 counties... Hillary won only 16..... trump took 46 counties.... of the 5 boroughs (counties that make up NYC) of NYC..Hillary lost Staten Island, she could not even carry the whole city..... so should New York be considered true blue or actually red, or a purple state???
there is no such thing as a "solidly blue" or "solidly red" state
look at Nevada...Hillary won the state (popular vote) and got the electoral delegates....but...out of 17 counties...Hillary won only 2....trump took 15 counties
so blue Nevada... is only 1/8th blue... or 7/8ths red
look at Oregon ...Hillary won the state (popular vote) and got the electoral delegates....but...out of 36 counties...Hillary won only 8..... trump took 28 counties
so blue Oregon... is only 2/9ths blue... or 7/9ths red
look at Washington ...Hillary won the state (popular vote) and got the electoral delegates....but...out of 39 counties...Hillary won only 12..... trump took 27 counties
so blue Washington... is only 6/19ths blue... or 13/19ths red
look at Minnesota ...Hillary won the state (popular vote) and got the electoral delegates....but...out of 87 counties...Hillary won only 9..... trump took 78 counties
so blue Minnesota... is only 9/87ths blue... or 78/87ths red
look at VERY BLUE Maryland...Hillary won the state (popular vote) and got the electoral delegates.... but...out of 24 counties... Hillary won only 7..... trump took 17 counties
so blue Maryland... is only 7/24ths blue... or 17/24ths red
For several decades, and particularly since 2008, the issue of unfunded liabilities has been a growing problem for the Blue State governors. One reason Obamacare was created was to address this issue on the union and healthcare side. However, the underlying over-spending by state legislators/governors was never addressed.
The solution of allowing states to declare bankruptcy has been a part of that discussion for years. However, every Blue state governor knows if they declare bankruptcy they will never sell another bond again…. which means no investment… which means they will implode.
If the laws changed allowing states to declare bankruptcy, internally the blue states would collapse… there would be a massive exodus… people would flee the rust and collapse…. housing values would plummet overnight in Blue states…. business would leave… unemployment would skyrocket…. it would be statewide chaos.
The ultimate result would be smaller populations within the Blue state misery zones.
Think about the worst impacts and outcomes within the city of Detroit, Michigan, due to these issues on a municipal level… now overlay that visible outcome across an entire state; or group of states.
So we can look forward to an epic battle over federal bailouts of the state revenue shortfall. New York, New Jersey, Illinois, Connecticut and California will be demanding hundreds of billions, perhaps trillions.
Another reason I would just as soon see the country split and force red states to pay their own costs.
How patriotic of you.
#1 You've dodged this point. The port of Long Beach send duties, tariffs, and other taxes to the national government. Your stats throws that in as a tax 100% paid by California.
Who ultimately pays tariffs, port duties, and other taxes at the port?
(A) California.
(B) Every American consumer that buys the goods imported at the port.
(C) China and the other exporting countries.
You won't answer this, because it sinks a hole in your entire diatribe.
#2 Using your states need to pay their own costs mindset - let's extend it:
African-Americans are significantly more likely to be on welfare than the national average. They vote blue overwhelmingly.
Single mothers are significantly more likely to be on welfare than the national average. They vote blue overwhelmingly.
High School drop outs are significantly more likely to be on welfare than the national average. They vote blue overwhelmingly.
Shouldn't blue voters start paying their own costs?
So is the new Republican campaign strategy to suggest that if voters don't vote red they will be punished if the Republicans win?
Really
Not sure swing voters are going to love this idea.
So is the new Democrat campaign strategy vote for us and you get free money? We will all be punished in the long run as our currency goes to crap with the already massive national debt.
I am not really sure sane voters will love this idea. I guess they are banking on majority insanity?
Illinois, who is asking for $40 Billion, was in serious financial problems for DECADES. The only way to enforce sanity with Illinois voters is to make them have a consequence, otherwise their state will be right back to buying votes with unsustainable promises.
I am a lifetime New Yorker. Born and raised in NYC and if NYS and NYC has to file for bankruptcy so be it. How many times are we going to go through this nonsense that starts under the leadership of Democrats? When Pataki, Guliani, and Bloomberg were running the city and state they were fiscally responsible. Cuomo and de Blasio have pissed away so much money fighting with each other and tripping over each other to pander to the next illegal alien that has their hand out they have completely destroyed the finances of the state. de Blasio gave all the unions sweetheart contracts because he was too scared to fight them. The pension system for most of these unions are unable to maintain the levels of money they have committed to paying out. Cuomo said a few weeks ago that he has lowered property taxes every year since he has been in office. Yes, that's true. He has lowered them in parts of the state that are rural areas that are basically forests with little to no property on them. When you get downstate like Westchester, Rockland NYC the city's themselves set the formula and those taxes have gone up every year. With the exception of when Sandy hit and the taxes were rolled back and frozen in the hardest-hit areas they made up the difference by assessing other areas higher.
The Governor and Mayor have set taxes, tolls, fees and fines so high that Cuomo in January said that it's not sustainable as he finally realized the rich and middle class were moving away. There is no way that they can justify raising taxes, tolls, fees, and fines again. Mark my words they will try. But they will meet a swift rebuke by the people. I wouldn't give these blue states a dime of my taxpayer dollars. They have proven time and time again that they can not handle money. When you get a guy like de Blasio saying a few weeks ago during the state of the city address just as the Pandemic was heating up and he was in full-blown denial of it, saying that "the money is out there it's just in the wrong hands." That is a stunning comment that near silence and groans. He was expecting a big standing ovation. he is still waiting.
Let the blue states go bankrupt. The people that live there will be better off. The country will be better off.
I agree
As a native and lifelong NYer myself, we pay one of the highest property tax in the nation. The high sales tax, tolls, hidden gas tax, MTA payroll tax, and the list goes on and one. NYers are taxed to death far more than Kentucky. NYS and NYC should be rolling in $$$$
Simply Cuomo and DeBlasio should slash their budget by 40% and cut the bloat. Corruption and unions are a serious problem as well. They have little fiscal responsibility
Does not matter how much you pay to the Federal Govt.
What matters is how far in debt the state and it's pensions were before. States like NY, NJ, RI, IL have been irresponsible and overspent for years and people are leaving those states due to high taxes and bad management.
Federal Govt has a lot of facilities like Military bases that distort it's numbers on money paid.
NY was not in bad shape and Rhode Island addressed their pension problems because their constitution allows it. States should not be looking for the federal government to cure problems before this hit but they should be assisting with the deficits caused by the virus.
For several decades, and particularly since 2008, the issue of unfunded liabilities has been a growing problem for the Blue State governors. One reason Obamacare was created was to address this issue on the union and healthcare side. However, the underlying over-spending by state legislators/governors was never addressed.
The solution of allowing states to declare bankruptcy has been a part of that discussion for years. However, every Blue state governor knows if they declare bankruptcy they will never sell another bond again…. which means no investment… which means they will implode.
If the laws changed allowing states to declare bankruptcy, internally the blue states would collapse… there would be a massive exodus… people would flee the rust and collapse…. housing values would plummet overnight in Blue states…. business would leave… unemployment would skyrocket…. it would be statewide chaos.
The ultimate result would be smaller populations within the Blue state misery zones.
Think about the worst impacts and outcomes within the city of Detroit, Michigan, due to these issues on a municipal level… now overlay that visible outcome across an entire state; or group of states.
So we can look forward to an epic battle over federal bailouts of the state revenue shortfall. New York, New Jersey, Illinois, Connecticut and California will be demanding hundreds of billions, perhaps trillions.
Many states have unfunded liabilities not just blue states. What exactly do you think would happen to th states like Kentucky or others if not for the GDP generated by NY, Texas and California. Where exactly would people flee to if those states collapsed, Alabama, Nebraska and who would cover the standard of living in the poor states.
This shouldn't be a blue state/red state issue but McConnell made it into one with his ridiculous plan of bankruptcy. Maybe we need to do the same for hurricanes, fires and floods, let the hardest hit states just declare bankruptcy.
I'm all for states addressing their shortfalls but this statement in the middle of a pandemic by McConnell was completely stupid.
When these coronavirus briefings are behind him , Cuomo is going to be one sad individual. I dont think Ive ever quite seen anybody that likes to hear his own voice as much!
Trump also likes to hear himself talk, that is why he is butting in all the time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight
Many states have unfunded liabilities not just blue states. What exactly do you think would happen to th states like Kentucky or others if not for the GDP generated by NY, Texas and California. Where exactly would people flee to if those states collapsed, Alabama, Nebraska and who would cover the standard of living in the poor states.
What makes you think California is a rich state and Nebraska is a poor state?
Median Household Income in:
California $63,783
Nebraska $59,970
To the untrained eye, California comes out on top...
Taxes:
California averages 9.47% for the median household.
Nebraska averages 9.21% for the median household.
Call it a wash.
Cost of Living:
Earning $50K in Omaha Nebraska is the same as earning $65K in Sacramento California, or $78K in San Diego, or $109K in San Francisco.
A typical Nebraska family will find FAR more affordable housing, cheaper groceries, cheaper utilities, cheaper healthcare, cheaper cars, cheaper gas, etc...
The median Nebraska family has significantly greater purchasing power than the median California family.
State Debt Per Citizen:
California $13,782
Nebraska $8,817
Nebraska's pensions are also in much better shape than California's.
Poverty Rate:
Nebraska 10.8% (ranked 13th)
California 13.3% (ranked 29th)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight
NY was not in bad shape and Rhode Island addressed their pension problems because their constitution allows it. States should not be looking for the federal government to cure problems before this hit but they should be assisting with the deficits caused by the virus.
Illinois could pass a state constitutional amendment that would allow them to reform the pension. They choose not to. Keep in mind the USSC has at times said that such contracts can be broken if there is a reasonable public need.
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