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Old 04-25-2020, 10:23 AM
 
19,573 posts, read 8,489,347 times
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Nationalism and internationalism is still the best way for the peoples of the Earth to interact and to live together. When those countries are democratic (little d), they tend to live together peacefully, if not always very responsibly. This allows for differences in culture and also for change over time.

Globalism on the other hand is a top-down, elite-driven, one-size-fits-all, agenda that is certain to lead to strife, conflict and enormous resentment, of the sort that had produced Donald Trump, Brexit, anti-establishment movements and parties on the rise across Europe, and of course the resignation of Angela Merkel.

The lesson learned here should be that it is time to retire the globalist ideology, in terms of deferring to central global authorities, especially when organized in the form of multinational organizations like the WTO, WHO, UN, the Paris Climate Accords, etc.

 
Old 04-25-2020, 11:20 AM
 
159 posts, read 53,992 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Nationalism is a laughably stupid personal philosophy.
Do you put your family's welfare ahead of your neighbors? If you do, you're fundamentally a nationalist too.
 
Old 04-25-2020, 11:38 AM
 
Location: USA
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A nation is a group of people with a common language, historical narrative, religion, and culture. A tribe, basically...only larger.

Nationalism is a social movement that emphasizes the supposed superiority of one nation over all other nations.

Here in America, we call it American Exceptionalism. It’s the belief that we have more freedom than anybody else, and so that makes us better than everyone else.
 
Old 04-25-2020, 11:44 AM
 
19,573 posts, read 8,489,347 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80 View Post
A nation is a group of people with a common language, historical narrative, religion, and culture. A tribe, basically...only larger.

Nationalism is a social movement that emphasizes the supposed superiority of one nation over all other nations.

Here in America, we call it American Exceptionalism. It’s the belief that we have more freedom than anybody else, and so that makes us better than everyone else.
Nationalism does not necessarily emphasize "superiority" over all other nations. That is just blatantly false.

That being said, most people root for their nation's athletes at the Olympic games. It is not because they fundamentally believe that their nation is "superior" to all other nations. But it is quite a thrill to see one of your nation's athletes win a gold medal, or to see your nation win the most medals during a particular year's Olympics competition. It is a tribal identity thing, which is a deeply-rooted and fundamental aspect of what it means to be human.
 
Old 04-25-2020, 12:16 PM
 
159 posts, read 53,992 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80 View Post
Nationalism is a social movement that emphasizes the supposed superiority of one nation over all other nations.
What term would describe a nation of people who want to determine for themselves their nation's future and who want their elected officials to put their interests first?
 
Old 04-25-2020, 12:18 PM
 
159 posts, read 53,992 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartacus713 View Post
Nationalism does not necessarily emphasize "superiority" over all other nations. That is just blatantly false.

That being said, most people root for their nation's athletes at the Olympic games. It is not because they fundamentally believe that their nation is "superior" to all other nations. But it is quite a thrill to see one of your nation's athletes win a gold medal, or to see your nation win the most medals during a particular year's Olympics competition. It is a tribal identity thing, which is a deeply-rooted and fundamental aspect of what it means to be human.
Is it fair to say that the World Cup is an orgy of nationalism? I haven't noticed anyone complaining.
 
Old 04-25-2020, 12:21 PM
 
159 posts, read 53,992 times
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I have two questions for people who oppose nationalism.

Do you permit your neighbor to establish the rules within your home?

Do you work for the betterment of you and your family or for the betterment of your neighbor?
 
Old 04-25-2020, 12:22 PM
 
19,573 posts, read 8,489,347 times
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Originally Posted by GoodDawg View Post
Is it fair to say that the World Cup is an orgy of nationalism? I haven't noticed anyone complaining.
It absolutely is. Football (soccer) is the most popular game in the world and the nationalists in nations around the globe - big and small, from every region - go positively berserk around these festivals of competition.
 
Old 04-25-2020, 12:26 PM
 
Location: Cole Valley, CA
830 posts, read 483,712 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodDawg View Post
I agree with the following definition from Wikipedia. Based on their definition, I support nationalism. With that said, there have been "good" nationalists throughout history and there have been "bad" nationalists throughout history. Who were some good nationalists? Abraham Lincoln and Mahatma Gandhi. Who were some bad nationalists? Adolf Hitler and Fidel Castro.

I ask because I believe that some have a mistaken idea of what is nationalism. Some view it as being opposed to immigration, for instance. That is incorrect, based on the definition below.

Nationalism - Wikipediaen.wikipedia.org › wiki › Nationalism
Nationalism is an ideology and movement that promotes the interests of a particular nation (as in a group of people) especially with the aim of gaining and maintaining the nation's sovereignty (self-governance) over its homeland.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalism
That's a good denotational definition, but I think the use of the word can sometimes carry negative connotations. And perhaps even nationalism as defined can be taken too far.

But I guess I'd consider myself somewhat of a nationalist. I'm an American citizen and agree with an "America first" stance when exhibited by our political leaders. It seems somewhat obvious to me. I also believe in American exceptionalism under many of the most common definitions.

That being said, I think several other countries have certain aspects of their functioning which are as good or better than their American counterparts, and I'd never extend the concept to individuals who were raised or reside in other countries. For example, I don't see any reason to believe one individual is any better or worse than another because of the countries in which they were raised.
 
Old 04-25-2020, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Cole Valley, CA
830 posts, read 483,712 times
Reputation: 1549
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartacus713 View Post
Nationalism and internationalism is still the best way for the peoples of the Earth to interact and to live together. When those countries are democratic (little d), they tend to live together peacefully, if not always very responsibly. This allows for differences in culture and also for change over time.

Globalism on the other hand is a top-down, elite-driven, one-size-fits-all, agenda that is certain to lead to strife, conflict and enormous resentment, of the sort that had produced Donald Trump, Brexit, anti-establishment movements and parties on the rise across Europe, and of course the resignation of Angela Merkel.

The lesson learned here should be that it is time to retire the globalist ideology, in terms of deferring to central global authorities, especially when organized in the form of multinational organizations like the WTO, WHO, UN, the Paris Climate Accords, etc.
How would you distinguish between globalism and internationalism?

From your description it seems like globalism is sort of like the EU for the entire planet, or at least a large portion of participating countries.
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