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Way ovehyped. Some states are closed down for what, 100 deaths? In my state, 60% ofthe deaths are in nursing homes, and I'll bet 90 % are with people over 65 that aren't in very good shape to begin with. Plus, all the numbers are being fudged, so I'll be 1/3-1/2 weren't directly related to Covid.
There are going to be deaths- its a virus. What its going to show is we as a nation aren't very healthy. But even if there are 150,000 deaths, the population of the US is 330 million.
The whole thing is being done wrong- instead of Quarantining the older population and the sick, we are making everyone stay home to protect them. Let them stay home and everyone else be smart and clean, but get back at it.
^^^This
At first when it is unknown the response was reasonable. Now we have real data. It is being shown that in most areas you have around a 96% chance of surviving the virus. It has a mortality rate very close the the Flu. Congested areas like New York, are higher. Rural ares are better. Different areas need different responses. But most areas can open back up. If you are at risk or have loved ones at risk, take the extra precautions. But for goodness sake, the cure is going to be worse.
Domestic Abuse and Child abuse are on the rise. Drinking alcohol is on the rise. Sexual abuse is on the rise. Those have lasting ramifications. Many would agree, those are worse than death.
Yeah I'm not sure how many more people need to die before you get it. How many more of the experts in the field (posters are not in this group) need to say how dangerous this virus is before some you get a clue.
But by now it should be obvious that no amount of death and tragedy will convince you that a virus that has already killed 55,000 American in a less than 2 months and is not slowing down is pretty serious.
Yeah, we lost almost 3 thousand people in the Sept. 11 attacks, and Americans were calling to arms about that. We've already surpassed the number of deaths in a few months, what it took the Vietnam war in its entirety. Both those have memorials.
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankrj
All the media says is infections. Infections are growing. Well, no sh*t. Was this done with people who had the flu? Did they do this when AIDS came out, saying we got to test more people.
We have vaccines for the flu, and even then, the death toll wasn't as high as we have it now.
During the early AIDS crisis, there actually was a resistance to testing, but companies had to be guilted into providing them, being asked at how many deaths does it take where the publicity and financial cost finally overtakes the other factors? Later on, we've learned how it's transmitted. When people can get AIDS by being too close to others at the supermarket, then we'll be more worried
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisCD
Domestic Abuse and Child abuse are on the rise. Drinking alcohol is on the rise. Sexual abuse is on the rise. Those have lasting ramifications. Many would agree, those are worse than death.
This is such a slippery slope. People will then be able to sue their employers because a wife could claim that her husband's company laying him off caused him to spiral into depression, smoke, drink, and beat/abuse her and their kids.
Something I will say is that this pandemic is certainly causing people to reveal their true hidden inner characters and natures. Both the good and the bad, the generous and the money-grubbing hoarders, the truly brave and the yellow-bellied cowards, the sensible and practical and the ignorant, angry self-centered, entitlement minded damned fools. It's been a real eye opener about societies around the world.
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It has certainly given sociopaths a political cause to celebrate.
Being from Chicago, I've learned that when you hear shots fired, you hit the deck quickly and only gradually come out of hiding as you determine you're not the target. Those who hear shots and stand up to see where they're coming from don't live as long.
We didn't know at first how this bug spread, how quickly it spread, how many people had it or how deadly it was...The right thing to do was stay at home, eliminate travel from high risk areas and to prepare medical facilities and resources as if the care was going to make a difference.
Epidemiologists knew that by slowing the spread of the bug, you can slow the rate at which the sick show up at the hospitals and hopefully then, won't overwhelm the resources. The problem is, by slowing the spread, you also keep the number of susceptible people higher for a longer period of time, and at the same time keep the number of immune people lower for longer.....
….That might have been a good thing IF medical care really made a big difference...but it DOES NOT. The sad facts from NYC is that no early care will prevent a pt from going downhill-- that's determined by the pt's immune system, not the medical care...And once the pt slides down to the point where a mechanical ventilator is needed, he's doomed if over 65 y/o (97% death rate in that case) and not much better if younger (75% death rate)….It looks like we didn't need all those extra ventilators to be made and a flooded ER would not make any difference anyway. https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/929375
But one would have needed a crystal ball to know that ahead of time...Now we know and it's time to change the plan.
Not much has changed. Mechanical contagion control is still our only means of containing the epidemic. Even if you survive, you might not like it. It turns out pneumonia is only the beginning. CV infects every organ in the body. Cardiomyopathy is a big one, and you wouldn't wish cardiomyopathy on your worst enemy. That's why Trump's miracle drug went bust. It worked fine in a test tube, but hydroxychloroquine is hard on the heart. It caused a 20% boost in deaths. That's not a great outcome.
Focusing on the death rate doesn't give you the full picture. You can survive but need a heart transplant. You can survive but be crippled or end up a vegetable from a stroke. Medical care can limit some of the comorbidities. If you stack the hospitals with dying people, that's not going to happen.
Those estimates were made early on (shots fired!) when it looked like the death rate from CoViD was 10%. Now we know the rate is more like 0.5%-- so 150,000 expected deaths IF everyone were to get infected. Herd immunity will dominate when the infection rate is around 60-70% and fewer people will continue to get infected, so even fewer people will die.
That's the problem when dealing with these matters: medical decisions should be made on an individual basis, but public health decisions have to be made on the basis of statistics as they apply to the group and not the individual.
Probabilities are "an area under the curve" (a 2 dimensional object) while the individual is a single point under the curve (a 0 dimensional object). Statistics NEVER apply to the individual. A .300 hitter can't get 3/10ths of a hit in THIS At Bat, not can a single patient only die 0.5% of the way.
The other day, they had that usual doc on Fox News criticizing the early opening of things-- "they're practicing 1950s style medicine when they advocated for "Measles Parties."....Maybe so, but then sheltering is practicing 1300s style "avoid The Plague" style.
You dropped a decimal place. 300,000,000 x .005 = 1,500,000. But hey, what's a million one way or another?
Herd immunity does not mean the disease disappears, only that it circulates slower among the remaining 30% of the susceptible population. People will still die, but not so many every day. It's the difference between epidemic and endemic.
Sheltering is not the only means of mechanical contagion control. If both parties are wearing surgical masks, it reduces contagion by 90%. Every time you go out and see someone not wearing a mask, it's extending the shutdown. It's their fault.
That logic drives me nuts. If someone has heart problems and I shoot them in the head, I can blame their death on their heart problems? They only had 5 years left, maybe 10 at the most, so it doesn't count?
That logic drives me nuts. If someone has heart problems and I shoot them in the head, I can blame their death on their heart problems? They only had 5 years left, maybe 10 at the most, so it doesn't count?
If a gunshot victim with a healthy heart would have survived, but one with a compromised heart succumbed to the same injuries, owing to poor circulation or whatnot, then yes, the heart-ailment was responsible for the ultimate fact of death.
Way ovehyped. Some states are closed down for what, 100 deaths? In my state, 60% ofthe deaths are in nursing homes, and I'll bet 90 % are with people over 65 that aren't in very good shape to begin with. Plus, all the numbers are being fudged, so I'll be 1/3-1/2 weren't directly related to Covid.
There are going to be deaths- its a virus. What its going to show is we as a nation aren't very healthy. But even if there are 150,000 deaths, the population of the US is 330 million.
The whole thing is being done wrong- instead of Quarantining the older population and the sick, we are making everyone stay home to protect them. Let them stay home and everyone else be smart and clean, but get back at it.
That sounds like the old "A million illegals voted for Hillary" fantasy that Trump used to explain losing the popular vote. Health care officials say the number of Covid-19 deaths are being under-reported for a variety of reasons, most commonly because only 8 states require an autopsy for people found dead at home.
Does not look like he has any...or hate their guts...
To add to this discussion, please take into a consideration that the recent research shows that even assymptomatic people infected by the virus will show an extensive damages to the lungs, heart, blood vessels, etc.
The truly first case of death from the COVID in the US was a healthy (diet, exercise, high level of education, high paying job) 57 y o woman who was recovering from "sniffles" according to some here- at home- happened when her heart just burst all of a sudden. The experts said, that this type of damage could be only seen in a car accidents or high rise falls before this infection demonstrated what damage it could do.
At 8 am she was on the phone with collegue - working as she felt good.
At 10 AM her daughetr found her dead. It is very typical of this disease- feeling that you are OK and done with the virus- then suddenly dropping dead.
Could be anyone.
We're finding out that the coronavirus is not just an ugly form of viral pneumonia, it's a systemic virus that infects all parts of the human body. The strokes are because it attacks the lining of the blood vessels, it causes heart damage, liver and kidney damage, and also attacks the nervous system. There are reports of people who recover and go back to shedding the virus. That may be reinfection, but what if the virus can go dormant like herpes? I don't even want to know what a case of covid shingles would be like, plus people might go back to shedding the virus years later.
This is a really nasty piece of RNA. It may have been evolving in bats for thousands of years before making the jump to humans.
Sadly a major grocery store is falling in line too. I could not exchange an unopened (hardly touched) item bought two hours ago for a different flavor that is unsalted. The idiot showed me a sign they said they started on month ago.
Blatant over reaction again by a company brought on the by the media and fear mongerers. fear breeds fear in the weak. They need each other to feel safer. Basically, a type of co-dependency.
All the media says is infections. Infections are growing. Well, no sh*t. Was this done with people who had the flu? Did they do this when AIDS came out, saying we got to test more people.
They never say the numbers of hospitalizations which is extremely low, or the lack of testing and dismiss hundreds of thousands who have antibodies which further proves the mortality rate far less than 1%. This country's elite and media are truly insane.
This virus has killed more people than the Vietnam war, in 2 months time!!
I know 3 people that have had it, one is dead, 2 are in the hospital.
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