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Old 05-02-2020, 11:05 PM
 
Location: North Pacific
15,582 posts, read 7,466,556 times
Reputation: 2534

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
I've been watching The Last Kingdom. I'm not sure how historically accurate it is, but it is about all the Kingdoms being united into one, that creates England. (i love shows like that one as well as King Author ones)

When in the history of man both, ancient or modern, did some form of (power) government not exist, where as, its right to exist was given to it by the people?

The Bible is 3000 year old history, in it a story of Christ, being angered at the government for collecting taxes in the Church ... the money changers have been around forever; and people have never listened, ever. If they didn't listen then, they most definitely won't listen now.

It has even grown now, for the u.s., at least, that the people believe they can use the power of the government to hold dictatorship over their neighbor. They not only consented to it, but they are enjoying the crap out of it.

And you want them to give up that perceived power, by telling them they do not hold all the cards in this game? They are not going to buy what you are selling, because they believe otherwise ... even when the bombs fall out of the skies, they will continue to believe their government, will sort it all out for them --- history has shown, even as kingdoms have fallen, people will stand behind their king, always, and they believe he will provide for them, a way of life. People telling them otherwise, will not make a bit of difference in this world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
I disagree that people are hopeless statists.

I was a statist. Frank, T0103E, Volobjectarian, and probably even Gungnir were statists at one point.

The fascinating part in regards to us anarchists is that not only were we once statists many of us were very involved statists...either working in government (I did) or belonging to the military (I know Volobjectarian was in the Navy if I'm not mistaken).

All it takes for government to no longer exist is that enough people say it doesn't exist. Remember, it's a social construct with no moral or logical basis in the natural world. It's the equivalent of Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.

I'd like for people to not be statists. I try the best way to get them not to be. Perhaps I'm lousy at that but there's no immorality in that character trait. I simply suck at something. I'm not violating rights.

As for this question:

Quote:
When in the history of man both, ancient or modern, did some form of (power) government not exist, where as, its right to exist was given to it by the people?
I ask you to watch an 8-minute video explaining how rights, consent, and non-aggression function in human interaction. Let me know if this leads you to answer your own question. I'm eager to see your response. Pictures included!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muHg86Mys7I
I knew what the contents of the video would be even before I pressed play, because you and I have had extensive conversations over this topic. You and I, I believe have arrived at the same place, although we took very different paths to get there ...

Quote:
All it takes for government to no longer exist is that enough people say it doesn't exist.
That is like ... all it takes for God to exist, is if enough people say He does ... It does not work that way, for you or for me.

The reason it doesn't work that way for anarchist is because in the history of human beings, they have always established a hierarchy ... it is true for any animal species on this planet. A pack of wolves, has a lead wolf --- etc. It is in our animal nature. The only difference between humans and all other animals on this planet is within our ability to reason. (all though I've seen some animals out do people; debated that topic in humanities; the teacher was not impressed)

ref to video --- a community can be established w/protection, not aggression, yes? We are animals in the animal kingdom and if a grizzly bear shows aggression towards that pack of wolves --- ? I don't have to put a question mark there, you know what happens next --- defense with aggression back at it. There are some anomalies in nature which is true, but a threat is a threat and the pack has established hierarchy to deal with it.

In the 3000 year recorded history of man on this planet ---- people have yet to learn how to live in peace, and there is always an aggressive threat to their communities. Whether it be an ancient kingdom, an established country --- or a commune living together out in the middle of no where (like the young folks of the 60s), no one has learned how to leave well enough alone.

Some one always has something, some one else wants and people will do whatever it takes to protect what's theirs ... it's in our nature, to do so. That is how the government grows more powerful, than the people, they claim to (protect) represent. It too, will protect itself and will hang an innocent man to do it.

What I learned in Humanities is that people have yet to change. People have better tools, but fundamentally people are just as barbaric now as in the days they fought each other with rocks and swords and held death shows in the arenas of Rome. We just have fancier ways of basically performing the same tasks ...

The only way for people to say the government does not exist and to not yield to it power --- is to fundamentally change, their ways of life. As long as they are a threat --- there will always be some form of government to deal with it.

That is my opinion, perhaps though you see something else, some natural evolution I have missed.
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Old 05-02-2020, 11:21 PM
 
Location: North Pacific
15,582 posts, read 7,466,556 times
Reputation: 2534
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Ever since there were land owners like No_Recess imagines a stateless society.

A legal writ is required for property management, which is why collective states formed after the neolithic revolution.

Nomadic 'nations' and tribes didn't have central governments because they did not have standard property laws, and distribution of goods was handled along the lines of usage.

Agriculture was the first advancement which promoted large settlements with legal code.

edit: Also, great show
I'm enjoying it and poor Uhtred, he keeps getting the short end of the stick ... as he seeks peace among the kingdoms.

Quote:
No_Recess imagines a stateless society.
I don't know about No_Recess's imagination, but there is a stateless society, that continues to grow as more countries exile their people and they can't get their government papers. Does make a person wonder though, if they all came together as one, what that might look like ... but then of course they would need unowned land in order to do that.

I use to wonder in today's time how would people establish their revolution, like the u.s. against England? Then 9-11 happened and I stopped wondering ...

We have now entered into the next stage and how we proceed from here, will determine our fate as a nation.
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Old 05-03-2020, 12:23 AM
 
Location: Heart of the desert lands
3,978 posts, read 1,968,769 times
Reputation: 5219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
With some forethought and prep, you can get quality high speed internet anywhere on earth. Google "sv delos" for more on that.
Or not. For consistent internet in the 3G/4G gaps out to sea, your example showed those sailing folks using text only limited satellite connections. No doubt often pinging off a leased port of a govt satellite.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
Won't even justify the welfare check comment with a response. Childish trolling attempt.
Trollish yes, I will own that. Yet the irony of purist anarchist types accepting "their" stimulus checks from Uncle Sammy is not lost on me.

I'll be impressed when people start posting stimulus check burning episodes.
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Old 05-03-2020, 01:50 AM
 
1,322 posts, read 582,711 times
Reputation: 1059
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
Of course.

At gunpoint. Just like you.

Or are you one of those folks who think it's voluntary?
What happened to you? And when did you adopt such an insufferable victim mentality? You have some options here - be a coward and a hypocrite OR have the courage of your convictions and do something about it. There are countless ways for you to remove yourself from the evil statist yoke here and abroad. You can do it legally, skirt the law a bit or go full outlaw. Any option would be better than what you're portraying here.

Search for Nomad Capitalist, read and execute a plan. At least then, when you get preachy, it'll count for something.

Also, parents are responsible for SSN assignments. I didn't get mine until I was teenager. And none of my kids have one. Completely legal.

I also recommend The Last Kingdom. Uhtred's courage may inspire you.
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Old 05-03-2020, 05:13 AM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,858 posts, read 17,226,534 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by snebarekim View Post
Or not. For consistent internet in the 3G/4G gaps out to sea, your example showed those sailing folks using text only limited satellite connections. No doubt often pinging off a leased port of a govt satellite.



Trollish yes, I will own that. Yet the irony of purist anarchist types accepting "their" stimulus checks from Uncle Sammy is not lost on me.

I'll be impressed when people start posting stimulus check burning episodes.
I got a stimulus check?

News to me.

Also, you do realize that most people who got a stimulus check - that was their money to begin with, right?

Government doesn't produce wealth Karl, it only steals and redistributes it.
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Old 05-03-2020, 05:14 AM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,858 posts, read 17,226,534 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by kajo13 View Post
What happened to you? And when did you adopt such an insufferable victim mentality? You have some options here - be a coward and a hypocrite OR have the courage of your convictions and do something about it. There are countless ways for you to remove yourself from the evil statist yoke here and abroad. You can do it legally, skirt the law a bit or go full outlaw. Any option would be better than what you're portraying here.

Search for Nomad Capitalist, read and execute a plan. At least then, when you get preachy, it'll count for something.

Also, parents are responsible for SSN assignments. I didn't get mine until I was teenager. And none of my kids have one. Completely legal.

I also recommend The Last Kingdom. Uhtred's courage may inspire you.
Parents are not responsible for SS requirements. You lost all credibility right there.
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Old 05-03-2020, 05:32 AM
 
Location: North America
4,430 posts, read 2,667,010 times
Reputation: 19314
And they sure love them some Nazi slogans...

At the Re-Open Illinois Rally, Friday:


Auschwitz:


And just to remove all lack of 'subtlety' the protester included the initials "J.B." on her sign. That would be Illinois Governor J.B. Pritzker ... who is Jewish.
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Old 05-03-2020, 08:31 AM
 
13,719 posts, read 5,469,072 times
Reputation: 8431
Quote:
Originally Posted by snebarekim View Post
Trollish yes, I will own that. Yet the irony of purist anarchist types accepting "their" stimulus checks from Uncle Sammy is not lost on me.

I'll be impressed when people start posting stimulus check burning episodes.
The stimulus represents my tax rate being different by 1%. Raped all the same, just with 23% evil instead of 24%.

It was MY money to begin with and all they did, on net, was steal a bit less at gunpoint. That you see it as a gift speaks to your ignorance more than any alleged hypocrisy on my part.
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Old 05-03-2020, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Morrison, CO
34,118 posts, read 18,361,242 times
Reputation: 25685
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2x3x29x41 View Post
And they sure love them some Nazi slogans...

At the Re-Open Illinois Rally, Friday:


Auschwitz:


And just to remove all lack of 'subtlety' the protester included the initials "J.B." on her sign. That would be Illinois Governor J.B. Pritzker ... who is Jewish.
Today some Jews can ACT like Nazis too. The Democrats have turned towards Totalitarian OPPRESSION. Very Fascist.
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Old 05-03-2020, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Florida
76,860 posts, read 47,191,511 times
Reputation: 14735
Quote:
The protestors are socialists too...
US has never been as close to socialism as we are today under Trump. He went all-in with authoritarian socialism with this pandemic.

His loyalists are doing the blame-shifting game, assuming others are stupid, but we are not.
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