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Old 05-22-2020, 08:36 AM
 
21,108 posts, read 13,437,873 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
I find it incredibly stupid that people are blaming high out of wedlock birth rates on welfare. While it can definitely be an enabler, there is something I'm going to bring up. Many people are just irresponsible regardless of the consequences. America's prison population skyrocketed in the 1980s due to the drug epidemic, and very harsh sentence towards drug offenses. However, it was steadily rising during the 1960s and 70s. Alot of offenders locked up during those years were likely committing crimes going back to their adolescent years. This should put their years of birth between 1939 and 1959. The prisoners being locked were more than likely committing crimes are far back as the early 1960s.

One of Chicago's most violent street gangs, the Almighty Black P. Stone Nation, was founded in 1959, by youths in a reform school. It started out as a community organization, but became a violent street gang in 1963.

Something tells me many of those kids might have been born outside of wedlock, or were raised in single parent homes. And this was before the whole "I don't need a man" mantra started taking hold.
That isn't all due to feminism. They were forced to learn to get by and raise children w/o them. Some chose a criminal life, others made mistakes that black people paid far more dearly for than whites.

Fathers being around isn't always helpful if they are a bad influence. Someone I used to know. Black, had a felony, but still managed to get a decent job and pay child support. He told me more about his criminal history and I was like did you have a bad childhood? 'No, it was really good'. I looked up his entire history and there is his Dad, tagged by the background check service. Dad was a criminal too.

Then I saw more recent crimes. As in 34, 36 rather than a teen and was like? You just don't learn! I can't ask him as I'd like to WHY. You overcame all that. You've experienced prison and supposedly want to avoid it at all costs, and yet I see here another 'unauthorized use of a motor vehicle'. In your 30's. Not a kid ****ing around or with the wrong crowd. A child and a wife. Or at least live in gf with child. Just why.

His late teens are riddled with stolen car after stolen car. Our of jail, a few months later steal another car.

To me I think gang. How else are you even selling drugs and stealing cars at that age if unaffiliated. IIRC, it started in younger teen years.

Anyway, if it's a choice between a bad influence for a father, and the child being raised by law abiding members of the woman's family, that is probably better.

Kevin Hart's brother started to model their Dad, who the Mom had sent away. She emancipated him. GTFO with that stuff. Put Kevin on lockdown. School, activity, study, chores. And look at him. Aiming to be a billionaire.
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Old 05-22-2020, 08:41 AM
 
21,108 posts, read 13,437,873 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel976 View Post
Well why don’t we do an experiment? Unwed mothers would continue to get welfare for their existing children, but any babies born after February 2021 (that’s nine months away) would NOT entitle their mothers to additional taxpayer funds. It would require weekly welfare checks (as in well-being) to ensure the children are being decently fed, and if any are not, the mother could be declared “unfit” (can be done quickly if a child’s health is in danger) and placed with a family who could feed him/her.

Let’s see if the OOW birthrate among poor, uneducated women drops as a result.
Good grief. We already have welfare reform that a woman can only be on for 5 years total. That takes care of the tiny minority of women who had child after child to keep the checks rolling in.

There is no incentive financially to having a second or third or fourth.
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Old 05-22-2020, 08:59 AM
 
15,068 posts, read 6,115,809 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
One thing to consider. The out of wedlock birth rate also includes working women. I know a few women who have had kids out of wedlock. All of them have jobs.
There is a growing number of women, including highly educated black women, who choose to have children via donors (known/unknown). These are children born out of wedlock, adding to the statistic. However, the children are planned and have strong support networks. I am aware of one person who has done that and others who are planning to do it. All of them are successful black women.
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Old 05-22-2020, 11:36 AM
 
72,820 posts, read 62,174,096 times
Reputation: 21774
Quote:
Originally Posted by jencam View Post
That isn't all due to feminism. They were forced to learn to get by and raise children w/o them. Some chose a criminal life, others made mistakes that black people paid far more dearly for than whites.

Fathers being around isn't always helpful if they are a bad influence. Someone I used to know. Black, had a felony, but still managed to get a decent job and pay child support. He told me more about his criminal history and I was like did you have a bad childhood? 'No, it was really good'. I looked up his entire history and there is his Dad, tagged by the background check service. Dad was a criminal too.

Then I saw more recent crimes. As in 34, 36 rather than a teen and was like? You just don't learn! I can't ask him as I'd like to WHY. You overcame all that. You've experienced prison and supposedly want to avoid it at all costs, and yet I see here another 'unauthorized use of a motor vehicle'. In your 30's. Not a kid ****ing around or with the wrong crowd. A child and a wife. Or at least live in gf with child. Just why.

His late teens are riddled with stolen car after stolen car. Our of jail, a few months later steal another car.

To me I think gang. How else are you even selling drugs and stealing cars at that age if unaffiliated. IIRC, it started in younger teen years.

Anyway, if it's a choice between a bad influence for a father, and the child being raised by law abiding members of the woman's family, that is probably better.

Kevin Hart's brother started to model their Dad, who the Mom had sent away. She emancipated him. GTFO with that stuff. Put Kevin on lockdown. School, activity, study, chores. And look at him. Aiming to be a billionaire.
And this boils down to another part. Men who are no good. I notice that it's easy for me who are no good to get lots of sex. I've said this before, and I'll say it again. The consequences for being unfit in terms of parenthood and marriage should be sexual frustration. Men who demonstrate being unfit to be fathers should be turned away by women. Women who show themselves to be unfit should not get any attention from eligible men. This would stop alot of issues right there.

Men being horrible father figures, that is a problem. Like father like son. If the father was no good, the son will grow up that way as well.

My point is this. Blaming welfare is a simple-minded process. It assumes that if Black women weren't on welfare, the men would start coming back. It ignores alot of other issues. There were some women who preferred a government check over their own man. There were women who did get married, but the man turned about to be a jerk and he left the family. This happened to Jackie Robinson, in 1920. His father walked out on the family soon after he was born. And then there is another issue. Infidelity. Cheating on a spouse is a big way to produce kids outside of marriage. Man goes and cheats on his wife, and produces a kid with a woman who isn't his wife.

We have bigger problems to solve, in particular, some moral issues.
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Old 05-22-2020, 12:20 PM
 
72,820 posts, read 62,174,096 times
Reputation: 21774
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineDeCoeur View Post
There is a growing number of women, including highly educated black women, who choose to have children via donors (known/unknown). These are children born out of wedlock, adding to the statistic. However, the children are planned and have strong support networks. I am aware of one person who has done that and others who are planning to do it. All of them are successful black women.
I have heard of that, but I've never really considered it. You would need some good money to pull that off.
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Old 05-22-2020, 01:29 PM
 
13,625 posts, read 20,679,789 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
Well, this is where I'm coming from. There is constructive criticism, and then I look at some of the language. I read in between the lines. I pay attention to every word said. When constructive criticism involves things like "why do you vote Democrat so much" and "welfare caused this problem" and "you were better off before LBJ", that is mainly more brutal than anything.

It is one thing when you say things like....

-OOW births only aggravate poverty.
-Fatherless homes have an effect on children.
-Having kids and not being able to take care of them causes problems.

I say those things. I'm pretty much a straight talker. I understand not controlling your loins will cause alot of problems down the road. I also understand the nuances that are taking place. There is a big gap between me and the persons who don't listen.

When you say stuff like as to suggest there is something wrong with Black people, then it becomes a problem. I also think about this. And to be blunt, I've never really stopped to think about the idea that some people want Blacks to do well. When people are saying things like "Black people are brainwashed by liberals", or "liberals train Blacks to be victims" or "what is with Black people" or "Blacks will continue to be self-destructive", that doesn't doesn't translate to "I just want Blacks to do well". It sounds more like people complaining ABOUT Black people. Reason for this? I hear people talking ABOUT Black people regarding other things. And in brutal ways.

Pointing out what amounts to a widespread problem within a group is just that. Having kids without the means is a problem for anybody. But because the problem is radically more pronounced within the black community- and in particular those under the poverty line- that is where the focus should be and will be.


And there is nothing wrong with black people per se, but a good chunk of them are engaging in reckless behavior that has longstanding ramifications across generations. A teenage dad in the slums not only wipes out his chances for stability, but also brings dependents into the world who will suffer too. And so on.

We do want you do to do well. Do you think we benefit from having a minority group permanently discontented? Good grief.

There is a problem here. Luckily the solution is actually quite simple- birth control.
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Old 05-22-2020, 01:43 PM
 
4,484 posts, read 1,837,166 times
Reputation: 6961
Pro tip from Joe Biden: you can’t get preggo if you just use your fingers instead.
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Old 05-22-2020, 03:25 PM
 
Location: Greenville SC 'Waterfall City'
10,106 posts, read 7,326,105 times
Reputation: 4072
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
One thing I've thought about is this. One of the ways the religious right got started, ironically, wasn't completely about religious liberty. It was about "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone".

Bob Jones University, a private evangelical university in Greenville,SC. BJU explicitly refused to admit any Black students up to 1971. It admitted Asians, but not Blacks. The IRS refused its tax-exempt status because of its racially discriminatory admission practices. When this happened, some right-wingers had a fit.

People were hiding behind "freedom of religion". I have thought about it. None of this has ever been about freedom of religion. I think more and more conservatives were finding themselves on the out during the 1960s and 70s. The religious right came at a time when America was battling culture wars.
Note the leftwinger associates racism with right wingers although historically racism has been associated with leftwingers. The south voted for leftwing Democrat party when it was racist.
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Old 05-22-2020, 05:22 PM
 
15,068 posts, read 6,115,809 times
Reputation: 5121
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
I have heard of that, but I've never really considered it. You would need some good money to pull that off.
I would definitely do it. One acquaintance of mine is planning to and I think it’s great. It’s also a back up for other friends of mine. If you’re making a bit over six figures, it’s likely not that difficult.
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Old 05-22-2020, 05:31 PM
 
Location: Texas
37,941 posts, read 17,746,058 times
Reputation: 10366
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
And this boils down to another part. Men who are no good. I notice that it's easy for me who are no good to get lots of sex. I've said this before, and I'll say it again. The consequences for being unfit in terms of parenthood and marriage should be sexual frustration. Men who demonstrate being unfit to be fathers should be turned away by women. Women who show themselves to be unfit should not get any attention from eligible men. This would stop alot of issues right there.

Men being horrible father figures, that is a problem. Like father like son. If the father was no good, the son will grow up that way as well.

My point is this. Blaming welfare is a simple-minded process. It assumes that if Black women weren't on welfare, the men would start coming back. It ignores alot of other issues. There were some women who preferred a government check over their own man. There were women who did get married, but the man turned about to be a jerk and he left the family. This happened to Jackie Robinson, in 1920. His father walked out on the family soon after he was born. And then there is another issue. Infidelity. Cheating on a spouse is a big way to produce kids outside of marriage. Man goes and cheats on his wife, and produces a kid with a woman who isn't his wife.

We have bigger problems to solve, in particular, some moral issues.
Saying blaming welfare is simple minded is something someone with a simple minded thought process would say. I guess it's just a coincidence that the single parenthood started going up at a high rate when the welfare state kicked in fulltime?

I guess it's just a coincidence that the black UE rate was more often than not lower than the white UE rate before Hoovers and FDRs handouts started. I guess it's just a coincidence that people would rather receive the current corona government handouts than work, since it pays some people more than what they are currently earning. Not everyone, but enough.

It's about money. Most things are. One of the biggest reasons, if not the biggest reason, couples get divorced, is over money.

Last edited by Loveshiscountry; 05-22-2020 at 05:40 PM..
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