Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Yet the governor of the state where the virus first occurred got control of the coronavirus. Why has it been so hard for Trump?
Inslee and the rest of WA deserve a lot of credit for blunting it quickly. Any state that does better than the NE Metro area deserves credit and thanks.
WA has a population of 7.6MM. 4.0MM of them live in SEA. The employers went WHF ~March 3rd, after the first death on Feb 29. Inslee started shutting down the state on March 15. That's the same time "15 days to reduce the spread" came out.
Today, WA has had 17K cases (2,225/MM), 900 deaths (119/MM), and tested 3% of their population
Meanwhile, in my state of NC...
Population of 10.5MM, 1MM live in each of 2 largest metros. Our stops started Mar 13 (schools shut down), and we had cases from the Biogen conference (Biogen has a big operation here).
Today, we have 14K cases (1,330/MM), 529 deaths (50/MM) and have tested 1.7% of our population.
If you choose to split out NY/NJ/CT, then we're at 2,650 cases/MM and 131 deaths/MM. That's relatively close to WA.
Not confused in the slightest. Asking a question relative to the claim that is the premise of this thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABQSunseeker
Of course Trump did not cause the disease, or totally protect 330 million Americans from it. He miserably failed to Deal with the pandemic developing until late in the game.. He didn't LEAD, that's what leaders do as in South Korea, Taiwan, Australia, New Zealand and others. They made quick, decisive, protective decisions.
Since you have defined "failure" as "not dealing with the pandemic until late in the game" then clarify what that means, such that we can define what success looks like.
You mention South Korea, so let's examine the case of Daegu. From the article in The Atlantic:
Quote:
The government demanded that the Shincheonji Church turn over its full membership list, through which the Ministry of Health identified thousands of worshippers. All were ordered to self-isolate. Within days, thousands of people in Daegu were tested for the virus. Individuals with the most serious cases were sent to hospitals, while those with milder cases checked into isolation units at converted corporate training facilities. The government used a combination of interviews and cellphone surveillance to track down the recent contacts of new patients and ordered those contacts to self-isolate as well.
In the case of Australia, New Zealand and Taiwan, they also were far more aggressive and draconian in their quarantine and lockdown efforts.
It seems as if the definition of success in "dealing with the pandemic" is government suspending civil liberties quickly and decisively. Every one of those countries had covid-19 deaths, but because government cracked down on the entire populace hard, and did so early, the number of deaths isn't as high a "per million" basis as countries like the US that didn't go full dictator as hard or as early.
Thus, Trump's failure was in not declaring martial law, because outside declaring martial law, the United States system of government let's each governor of the 50 sovereign states decide how things will go within their states. He failed to not suspend federalism soon enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABQSunseeker
Over and over and over, you should be forced to watch the video of Trump in February declaring there were only 15 cases in the U.S. and that number would go down in days. An ostrich with his head in the sand. He was in denial. He couldn't understand that diseases can increase exponentially. Why is it that he couldn't understand that and that others could and warned him about it.
Oh no, I get where you are at. Trump was supposed to declare martial law and lock down the nation, in February, and had he done so, we'd all be safe and sound, no covid-19 problem here. He failed to nationally suspend civil liberties while also discarding federalism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABQSunseeker
Take off your partisan blinders.
I am an anarchist. I have no partisan stake in this. I was trying to understand what exactly the President can/should do for pandemics and disease transmission generally, and you've answered quite clearly - declare martial law, lock down the entire nation, suspend federalism and civil liberties, and wait some prescribed period of time before allowing the nation to resume operations as normal. First sign of infection, lock the nation down, and do it unilaterally and without any delay whatsoever.
And nno sweat...everyone would see those early infection numbers and just all happily go along with the POTUS declaring martial law, suspending federalism and civil liberties, and hitting the economy's OFF switch, right? Congress, the media, the half of the country with TDS? They'd all be totally cool and peaceful with Trump doing that in early Feb...because hey, he's trying to save our lives and all, right?
He deliberately ignored the early warnings from people within our own government (whom, as it turns out, were absolutely correct about this plague). These reports individually started to reach him in late November, and specific repeated mentions of the epidemic in his daily briefings in early January.
The November claim has been denied by the "source", and the heightened awareness in briefings was mid-late January.
from the NYT:
Quote:
One official said that by mid- to late January the coronavirus was being mentioned more frequently, either as one of the report’s core articles or in what is known as an “executive update,” and that it was almost certainly called to Trump’s attention orally.
on Jan 20, there were no cases in the US. On Jan 23rd, the WHO said human transmission was between family members and health pros treating victims.
It’s impossible to believe he had not been told that COVID-19 was at least 10 times more deadly than the flu, or that it was passed human to human with a just touch or a cough.
The Chinese government declared that human-to-human transmission was impossible, and kept saying it until Jan. 20, 2020. The World Health Organization did the same.
If President Trump had taken radial steps before then, the same people bashing now for not taking them, would have been bashing him even harder back then if he HAD take radical steps.
When he banned travel from China to the US in late January, fanatics such as those bashing now in this thread, were calling him Racist, Xenophobic etc. for doing the exact things they are now bashing him for not doing enough of.
As I said earlier in this thread, the 20-minute memories of those who claim to be concerned that Trump "didn't do enough", is the fanatics' main asset.
Oh no, I get where you are at. Trump was supposed to declare martial law and lock down the nation, in February, and had he done so, we'd all be safe and sound, no covid-19 problem here. He failed to nationally suspend civil liberties while also discarding federalism.
I am an anarchist. I have no partisan stake in this. I was trying to understand what exactly the President can/should do for pandemics and disease transmission generally, and you've answered quite clearly - declare martial law, lock down the entire nation, suspend federalism and civil liberties, and wait some prescribed period of time before allowing the nation to resume operations as normal. First sign of infection, lock the nation down, and do it unilaterally and without any delay whatsoever.
And nno sweat...everyone would see those early infection numbers and just all happily go along with the POTUS declaring martial law, suspending federalism and civil liberties, and hitting the economy's OFF switch, right? Congress, the media, the general population? They'd all be totally cool and peaceful with Trump doing that in early Feb...because hey, he's trying to save our lives and all, right?
And I'm the partisan with blinders on? Really?
so the partisans on the left don't get all pissy, I changed to ALL OF US, not just some on the left.
We needed to shut down on as early as Jan 21, say some, but by March 15 was way too late.
so the partisans on the left don't get all pissy, I changed to ALL OF US, not just some on the left.
We needed to shut down on as early as Jan 21, say some, but by March 15 was way too late.
Sure, and ponder if you will, how things go in the Congress, the state capitols, the media, etc...because to lock down the NATION, the President would have needed martial law to override the power of the 50 governors.
Yeah, in January, while still undergoing the impeachment trial, the President declares national emergency/martial law, suspends federalism and civil liberties, hits the OFF switch on the economy, locks down the United States with a national quarantine for no less than two weeks, and says it's for our own good to save us from what at the time was a relatively little cared about issue overseas? Sure, that would have gone swimmingly, nobody would have said a word against Trump and just all been onboard with him looking out for everyone. Sure.
Considering that Trump's travel ban was pretty much in line with most other countries (and 4 days before South Korea's, ironically) at the end of January and early Feb (ours went into effect Feb 2 and was retro to anyone in China up to two weeks prior), but he was called xenophobic, emotional and political for doing it...I somehow doubt that had he declared national emergency/martial law, assumed unilateral emergency powers and then shut down the entire United States for two-four weeks starting in early Feb, everyone would have been copacetic with such drastic action.
But that's the thing with revising history and injecting "if only SoAndSo would have done X, then Y would not have occurred", since you cannot test the hypothetical scenario one way or the other, everyone gets to claim they are correct.
….. All that to say, in his three years as president, COVID-19 is the first real crisis he's had to deal with. The first true test of his ability to lead. And Trump has failed miserably.
I agree. He has failed we the people of the United States.
Donald Trump hid the gravity of this pandemic. Diminished the seriousness of this global public health issue and national security crisis, and then decided to weaponize and politicize it.
DJT, since 2015, has repeatedly shown that his interests are paramount to the national interests, and he interprets the national interest through what is good for him and what his cable news folks are saying at any minute. He sees the pandemic only as a threat to the economy he falsely "believes" he built and the re-election he seeks.
He did not cause this virus. Americans understand that, but they also know it is not susceptible to bullying & whining. And they do see and hear and feel the consequences of his utter unfitness as the leader of our nation.
Character is destiny. We are seeing, in a stark life and death way, a case study in why the character of the person at the top of the US government matters enormously.
Trump has not earned a second term. I believe his re-election is in jeopardy, and justly so.
Last edited by corpgypsy; 05-08-2020 at 05:20 PM..
Reason: punctuation
How Donald Trump failed at the single most important task of the Oval Office: keeping the American people safe from harm.
Trump knew all this. In fact, he knew a lot more. He had been getting daily intelligence reports for two months, warning him about the risk of a pandemic. It’s impossible to believe he had not been told that COVID-19 was at least 10 times more deadly than the flu, or that it was passed human to human with a just touch or a cough. A top White House adviser had already warned that a full-blown pandemic could imperil the lives of millions of Americans. Virtually every public-health expert in the world was speaking out, warning politicians and community leaders what was about to hit us.
Nevertheless, since the moment the outbreak was first publicized in January, Trump had been doing nothing but downplaying it. To him, the pandemic was merely another plot to sabotage him. “They’re trying to scare everybody . . . cancel the meetings, close the schools — you know, destroy the country,” he told his guests that weekend. “And that’s OK, as long as we can win the election.”
While I don’t agree with the entire article it bears much truth.
Thanks. Even Obama's people warned him.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
