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View Poll Results: Was it murder
Yes 299 58.86%
No 68 13.39%
Don't know/let's wait and see as more evidence is gathered 141 27.76%
Voters: 508. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
Old 05-11-2020, 09:17 PM
 
Location: Honolulu/DMV Area/NYC
30,512 posts, read 17,977,814 times
Reputation: 34244

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineDeCoeur View Post
The house was gutted. Further, if you listen to the call to the police about him in the house, the caller said he was not breaking in but that the house was OPEN and under construction.
Right, I edited my response. I was judging only from the outside of the place from the earlier video released. The house was gutted. Still, what he did isn't normal behavior anywhere that I have lived. Whether Ahmaud was breaking into the house doesn't mean that he was lawfully present on the property. There is still the issue of trespass. Again, an irrelevant point legally as the McMichaels knew nothing of Ahmaud's presence in the house. As I've written before, I just take issue with folks saying that this is normal behavior. Its apparently normal where you are. I'm curious to know if its normal where Ahmaud was. The fact that someone called 911 tells me that, perhaps, it wasn't normal behavior where Ahmaud lived either.

 
Old 05-11-2020, 09:18 PM
 
57,022 posts, read 35,045,362 times
Reputation: 18824
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1 View Post
I agree, and they likely regret their stupidity at this very moment we are discussing this on the internet.

However stupid the fools were, the victim would much prefer to be alive, and in highlight would have gotten down on the ground spread eagle, and waited for the cops to arrive.
Sadly he chose the worst possible choice in dealing with those fools.



`
We don’t take to being put on our knees by the cops, let alone a couple of redneck yahoos that we don’t even know. That’s counterintuitive and an affront to us black folks. I might stop whatever it is that I’m doing, but there will be no getting on the ground spread eagle if you’re not wearing a badge. This ain’t 1870. I’ll stand up and wait for the cops. I ain’t getting on my knees for nobody, especially not for a couple of bumpkins from Georgia.

That said, you’re pretty much spot on in your assessment.
 
Old 05-11-2020, 09:23 PM
 
3,538 posts, read 1,318,699 times
Reputation: 1462
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
We do NOT have all the facts right now. At all. I know there are posters who are basically saying shut up shut up shut up let's not take in any more information, the McMichaels are guilty. But there are a lot of questions unanswered, that would clarify either side. From my post earlier, after hitman asked if anyone needed further information to make a decision:

Were there other crimes committed in the neighborhood recently?

Is there a video of a perp from a recent crime in the neighborhood that looks like Arbery? Was it in fact Arbery? If not, would a reasonable person think they could be the same?

What was Arbery doing in that home the entire time he was there, Feb. 23? What caused him to suddenly bolt out of there at top speed? Did he hear McMichaels call 911?

Did Travis McMichaels have injuries consistent with being attacked?

Was the hammer found at the scene, in fact, being carried out of the vacant home by Arbery as a weapon?

Why did the McMichaels have at least two loaded guns at the immediate ready?

In general, do the McMichaels have a reputation for being even-keeled good neighbors?f

Did Gregory McMichaels in fact recognize Arbery, and know him by name, (indicating he could have given the name to LE instead of taking chase)?
yes we do have all facts. This didn't happen last weekend, this is several months old. All the facts are known. I don't know why you're falling back into speculation/opinion mode. We have the entire video of what he did in the house, why are you still asking dumb questions and hoping for a new answer? He "bolted" because he was jogging around for exercise. My god stop with these attempts at twisting facts.
 
Old 05-11-2020, 09:25 PM
 
3,538 posts, read 1,318,699 times
Reputation: 1462
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1 View Post
Completely different circumstances.


`
a person with a shotgun out with their finger on the trigger at a roadblock will cause someone's fight or flight to kick in. And you talking about circumstances is moving the goal posts. Several people have subdued at armed attacker simply by charging them.
 
Old 05-11-2020, 09:25 PM
 
Location: SW King County, WA
6,404 posts, read 8,238,758 times
Reputation: 6575
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
I grew up learning not to put myself in hazardous situations. At best Mr. Arbery wasn't taught that lesson.
Add victim blaming to all of your valuable life learned lessons!
 
Old 05-11-2020, 09:25 PM
 
Location: Pine Grove,AL
29,440 posts, read 16,358,514 times
Reputation: 5949
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
Considering the driver was videotaping and struggling to keep the subjects in the video, it seems unlikely there's a second person in the car. It seems they'd be the ones taking cell phone video, not the driver.

And yes, the guy following and videoing was there with the McMichaels - they knew him by name, and identified him in the police report at the time of the incident.
The bold is not how this world works though. People pull out cell phones and try to record while driving all the time, even when other people would be better suited to be the ones recording.
 
Old 05-11-2020, 09:29 PM
 
7,687 posts, read 5,091,172 times
Reputation: 5479
And this added POLL folks is why country will. Not. Stand.

Break it into 2 peacefully before people start killing each other on a mass scale
 
Old 05-11-2020, 09:29 PM
 
Location: Honolulu/DMV Area/NYC
30,512 posts, read 17,977,814 times
Reputation: 34244
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
We do NOT have all the facts right now. At all. I know there are posters who are basically saying shut up shut up shut up let's not take in any more information, the McMichaels are guilty. But there are a lot of questions unanswered, that would clarify either side. From my post earlier, after hitman asked if anyone needed further information to make a decision:

Were there other crimes committed in the neighborhood recently?

Is there a video of a perp from a recent crime in the neighborhood that looks like Arbery? Was it in fact Arbery? If not, would a reasonable person think they could be the same?

What was Arbery doing in that home the entire time he was there, Feb. 23? What caused him to suddenly bolt out of there at top speed? Did he hear McMichaels call 911?

Did Travis McMichaels have injuries consistent with being attacked?

Was the hammer found at the scene, in fact, being carried out of the vacant home by Arbery as a weapon?

Why did the McMichaels have at least two loaded guns at the immediate ready?

In general, do the McMichaels have a reputation for being even-keeled good neighbors?f

Did Gregory McMichaels in fact recognize Arbery, and know him by name, (indicating he could have given the name to LE instead of taking chase)?
We do not have all of the facts perhaps (I'm sure that there is some evidence information that hasn't been released by the police), but there is enough evidence--specifically the McMichaels' own words (that really would be the only thing that would change things legally) and the video footage--for me to come to an initial conclusion.

Specifically, we know from the MiMichaels' statement to police that they started to follow Ahmaud because they thought he fit the description of a previous burglary suspect. They mentioned zero knowledge of Ahmaud being inside of the house under construction.

By confronting Ahmaud with a firearm (and I've stated before that it strains belief and credibility to argue that the elder McMichael got out of the truck with his weapon to just shoot the breeze with Ahmaud . . . no, not when they claimed to believe that Ahmaud fit the description of a criminal), the evidence strongly supports that the McMichaels behaved criminally, both feloniously and otherwise (false imprisonment, assault, and possibly aggravated assault). Also, if Travis McMichael was attacked, do you not think that such information would have been in the police report? I could see if some of these questions were being raised in the absence of the police report being released, but that is NOT the case. Likewise, I'd wager that any hammer being used as a weapon by Ahmaud against the McMichaels (I'm still not sure that would change things legally) would have been in the police report.

No, the evidence does not support that the McMichaels were out to kill Ahmaud. And, indeed, the firing of the gunshots only took place once Ahmaud charged the elder McMichael and started to wrestle with the gun. But, what folks aren't acknowledging is that if you feel threatened with a gun by someone acting outside of the law (as the McMichaels were doing), you have a right of self defense, to include using physical force to repel any threat. Whether it would have been wise for Ahmaud to have stayed on the other side of the truck is neither here nor there as there is no expectation that someone not take a stand when presented with a threat to his person.
 
Old 05-11-2020, 09:32 PM
 
Location: Various
9,049 posts, read 3,494,720 times
Reputation: 5470
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8won6 View Post
yes we do have all facts. This didn't happen last weekend, this is several months old. All the facts are known. I don't know why you're falling back into speculation/opinion mode. We have the entire video of what he did in the house, why are you still asking dumb questions and hoping for a new answer? He "bolted" because he was jogging around for exercise. My god stop with these attempts at twisting facts.
Obviously the facts aren't all known.

Where did the hammer come from? How did it get on the road?

Trial by social media isn't a thing thankfully.
 
Old 05-11-2020, 09:32 PM
 
3,538 posts, read 1,318,699 times
Reputation: 1462
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
I've watched 2 videos of this incident. He was not jogging. He was looking through that house or casing it. Period.

The men who confronted handled it wrong.

I say let the law be applied as a jury sees fit.
omg. factually he was looking at the house. "Casing it" is you speculating. Again, yall want to muddy things up and add your own narratives. He simply looked around and left. His crime was trespassing. And even that often times requires a "No Tresspassing" sign to be present. It's a misdemeanor level crime.
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