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The bolded is exactly what takes away their right to claim self defense. You cannot escalate a situation and claim self defense when the victim defends himself.
Dangerous huh? That’s new. What was his history of violence? Haven’t seen anything about that yet.
By definition, detaining someone via a citizen's arrest, even when it's absolutely lawful, escalates a situation and brings with it risks. In some cases, it's worth it. In others, it is not. I don't think it was worth it in this case. So, no, you are incorrect that escalation obviates a claim of self-defense on its face.
If the police report contains hearsay evidence, it should be excluded.
It is included in the report that McMichaels said Roddy was involved. Roddy says he wasn’t. Right now, there isn’t sufficient evidence to conclude which one is telling the truth, and the report doesn’t establish which one is telling the truth.
Why is this so hard for you?
Nothing about this is an issue of “convenience.” I have been very consistent in shooting down unsubstantiated fabrications, and assertions that aren’t supported by evidence. If you, and everyone else, would simply stick to the facts, this would be a much more meaningful discussion.
Hearsay evidence is often included in court, there are exceptions to the exclusions.
Georgia is an open-carry state. You cannot attack someone for holding a gun and yelling, "Stop!"
Let me be clear: the McMichaels escalated this situation and should not have done it. At best, they should have followed him until the cops arrived. This shouldn't have ended like this.
That said, the people making up statements about Georgia law that are not reflected in the statutes are making this worse. It goes without saying that the media has tried from the outset to make this a racial thing and frame it as a modern lynching. I think the anger and frustration from many on this case is emanating from the fact that it's become clearer that this wasn't anything of the sort and was instead the result of two overzealous neighborhood watch types who escalated the situation by confronting a dangerous individual with a history of violence.
Sure you can open carry, but after chasing someone from point A to point B, then to point C then boxing them in and standing in the road with your gun you become the aggressor, and no longer can claim self defense when you kill them.
I have already posted the GA self defense law and it specifically states that if you are the aggressor you can not claim self defense.
I did not make up the specific Georgia Law that proves my point. Here is my source. Do you have any proof otherwise?
2018 Georgia Code
Title 17 - Criminal Procedure
Chapter 4 - Arrest of Persons
Article 4 - Arrest by Private Persons
§ 17-4-60. Grounds for arrest
Universal Citation: GA Code § 17-4-60 (2018)
A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.
You are incorrect. You did not quote the law and source. What you did was confuse 2 separate issues.
In Georgia, the law states that a private person may arrest someone if a crime is committed in his presence or “within his immediate knowledge.”
But if it is a felony, the citizen can stop someone from escaping if the citizen has “reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.”
Bolded to point out the differences in the two scenarios
Witness a purse snatching and one can legally detain the suspect. That is in his presence.
See someone running from a bank with a back pack, a mask on and an alarm sounding, that's not first hand knowledge but is reasonable suspicion.
This is lawyer technical stuff that you and I would not typically know about. Like the difference between Probable Cause and Reasonable Suspicion. "Thinking a crime has been committed but less than probable cause. Probable cause is established when a police officer determines he or she has enough information to believe there is a probable chance of criminal activity."
Reasonable suspicion is a commonly used term in law enforcement. It is regarded as being more than thinking a crime has been committed but less than probable cause. It refers to as what a reasonable person, or a normal, average person, would consider suspicious.
Someone running down the road with no mask, no backpack, nothing in their hands is not probable cause for anything.
Great. Never heard of that site, however, when the trial is over and the verdicts are read, sounds like there's going to be a lot of unhappy individuals over there on BARFCOM.
One of the largest gun forums on the net, not that it matters. . .
No we don’t know that. “Chased down” has a very different connotation from “we were trying to locate him so that we could talk to him about what he was doing in the house.” Right now, we don’t have the information that will allow us to make that distinction. Hopefully at trial, what actually happened will be established.
We do know that. In the 911 call, McMichaels says they are in "hot pursuit". In the police report, McMichaels describes how Arbery changed directions twice, while they pursued him.
Why do you think the following link is incorrect. I've read it from multiple sources and this link is the latest I read it from.
2018 Georgia Code
Title 17 - Criminal Procedure
Chapter 4 - Arrest of Persons
Article 4 - Arrest by Private Persons
§ 17-4-60. Grounds for arrest
Universal Citation: GA Code § 17-4-60 (2018)
A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.
Instead of saying it doesn't, why don't you at least attempt to prove me wrong?
Even if that were correct, the first element is witnessing the crime.
As to it's accuracy:
Quote:
Disclaimer: These codes may not be the most recent version. Georgia may have more current or accurate information. We make no warranties or guarantees about the accuracy, completeness, or adequacy of the information contained on this site or the information linked to on the state site. Please check official sources.
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